Screaming

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by horner, Oct 17, 2008.

  1. horner

    horner Pianissimo User

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    Jul 19, 2008
    London, England
    Hi,

    I read that people like Maynard Ferguson developed their upper register through practising playing tunes and even the Arban up an octave. Is this true and would it help develop playing in the upper registers?

    :play:
     
  2. et_mike

    et_mike Mezzo Forte User

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    Oct 16, 2007
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    that is part of the equation, but only part. Correct breathing and practicing softly have a lot to do with getting up there in the first place...
     
  3. horner

    horner Pianissimo User

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    Jul 19, 2008
    London, England
    how does playing softly help?
     
  4. screamingmorris

    screamingmorris Mezzo Forte User

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    Apr 4, 2007
    The higher you play, the tighter the embouchure must be, the smaller the embouchure aperture (opening) must be.
    Blasting high notes loudly, blasting a huge amount of air through the aperture, tends to open up the aperture, so your embouchure muscles must struggle against that huge air flow to keep the opening small.

    But if you play softly, with less air passing through the opening, the opening is allowed to remain small, and your embouchure muscles can maintain a tight, small opening with minimum effort.

    As your embouchure muscles strengthen, you can slowly play the high notes louder and louder.

    Try playing scales from low register up to high register playing just as softly as you can that will still permit a decent constant tone.
    At the top of the scale hold the top note for several seconds.

    Stop frequently for short rests when your lips tire.
    If you continue playing when your lips tire, there is a good chance that you will distort your embouchure in an attempt to keep going, and that distorted embouchure could develop into a serious problem later.

    AND USE MINIMUM MOUTHPIECE PRESSURE.
    DO NOT MASH YOUR MOUTHPIECE INTO YOUR LIPS.
    USE ONLY MILD PRESSURE FOR MAINTAINING A GOOD AIR SEAL.
    TOO MUCH MOUTHPIECE PRESSURE DISTORTS THE EMBOUCHURE AND INTERFERES WITH THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE EMBOUCHURE MUSCLES.
    ON THE OTHER HAND, TOO LITTLE MOUTHPIECE PRESSURE CAUSES A VERY THIN TONE.
    ON A SCALE OF 1 TO 10, TRY A MOUTHPIECE PRESSURE OF 2, INCREASING TO MAYBE A 3 FOR YOUR VERY HIGHEST NOTE.

    - Morris
     
    sonicgeo2 likes this.
  5. Al Innella

    Al Innella Forte User

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    Aug 9, 2007
    Levittown , NY
    If you want to play in the high register you have to practice in the high register, just like you do in the middle and low registers ,but dont over do it. Start your high register practice on fresh chops ,say after a warm up of long tones maybe some slurs ,rest then practice your high notes, stop when you start fell tired, forcing does more harm than good.:play: rember Maynard was playing like Maynard professionaly when he was only 15,theres more to it than Arban 8va.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2008
  6. skankin'dan

    skankin'dan Pianissimo User

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    Mar 14, 2007
    Winnipeg
    I suppose it will help, but only for being more proficient at the range you already have.

    Actually getting range is a long and arduous journey of breath attacks, lip slurs, and such, as a p or pp even.
     
  7. Veldkamp

    Veldkamp Piano User

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    Mar 29, 2004
    the Netherlands
    Most great leadplayers I know don't follow this principle. The focus should not be that the aperture gets smaller, but that the muscles get more tension when the notes get higher. Keep the aperture as big as possible and the sound will stay as big as possible. That's what people like Wayne Bergeron, Roger Ingram, Bobby Shew etc. are doing.

    The aperture will probably get smaller when going up, but you should keep it as open as possible. So, no pinching. You can hear it when people play up there with a to small aperture, they don't have that big sound.

    Bobby Shew's Biography

    I don't believe in playing soft either for practicing the upper register. Just read what Maynard said about it:

    MaynardFerguson.com
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2008
  8. screamingmorris

    screamingmorris Mezzo Forte User

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    Apr 4, 2007
    First, there is a difference in what one does to first develop an upper register versus what one does after one has already developed an upper register.
    Playing softly when first developing an upper register allows the weak embouchure muscles the ability to tighten without being blasted apart by a huge volume of air.
    After a person has already developed an upper register and strengthened those embouchure muscles, he can play as loudly as he wants because the embouchure muscles are strong enough to counteract that huge volume of air that is trying to blast the aperture open.

    Second, nowhere in that Ferguson interview did he say what you apparently claim he said.
    In fact, he said just the opposite.
    Instead, he said:
    "Stop playing as soon as you lose any of the beauty that you had in the lower key. The minute it sounds strained, stop and rest. Then play it again, still up the minor third, until this feels totally natural and lyrical. Eventually, take it up a fifth, always without increasing the intensity."
    So Ferguson was speaking of playing in the upper register in a *gentle* manner when first developing an upper register.

    Ferguson gave Donald Reinhardt a blank check to teach trumpet to Ferguson's son, and Reinhardt warned against trying to play loudly in the upper register when first trying to develop that ability.
    Bob Odneal, who played with Ferguson and who wrote the book "Casual Double High C", is a proponent of playing softly when first developing an upper register.

    Third, the sound that a player has after he has developed an upper register is mostly due to embouchure type (upstream versus downstream) and bore size of equipment.
    Ferguson had a downstream embouchure and he used a huge #19 throat on his mouthpiece and played an extra-large .468 bore trumpet to achieve that open sound.
    Bobby Shew played a Schilke trumpet with .450 bore and a Yamaha trumpet with a .445 bore and a lead mouthpiece with a tiny #28 throat, sizes that Bill Chase used to love for achieving that extremely tight brilliant sound.

    It is a fallacy to say that some players use a large aperture embouchure in the upper register while other players use a small embouchure aperture in the upper register.
    The size of their embouchure aperture is dictated by the physics of playing in the upper register.

    When I started relaxing and playing very softly, my range suddenly jumped half an octave.
    In the past I usually topped out around High F or High G every day.
    Playing very softly I suddenly found myself playing Double C's every day.
    Only *after* my embouchure becomes much stronger will I slowly try to play those notes louder and louder.


    -Morris
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2008
  9. oldlou

    oldlou Forte User

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    The point that the responders thus far have missed is that when playing very soft long low tones the important point is to totally control the tone, intonation and volume, while maintaining minimum mouthpiece pressure, thus, building lip muscles.


    OLDLOU>>
     
  10. oldlips48

    oldlips48 Piano User

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    Mar 1, 2007
    I soft playing/build the embrochure makes sense and I've been working on that. I find my issue is "slotting". D above high C is fine, and F is not bad, but E will not lock in. I'm open to suggestions.
     

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