second valve drags

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by Jack M, Aug 28, 2009.

  1. Jack M

    Jack M New Friend

    20
    0
    Jun 22, 2009
    CT
    Hi,
    I have an 1968 Olds Ambassador Cornet that has a wonderful sound to it, but the second valve often sticks or returns slowly after being pressed. This is especially true when playing slow notes.

    I'd love to get it working properly, but don't want to sink a fortune into it. I'd appreciate any advice you might offer. The other two valves ( 1 & 3) work just fine.

    I look forward to your suggestions.

    Thanks!
    Jack
     
  2. RUFocused

    RUFocused Pianissimo User

    120
    1
    Apr 26, 2009
    Cedar Rapids, IA
    Taking the Horn to your local shop shouldn't cost a fortune, They will tell you how much they think it will cost before they do it, so you can always turn and walk away.
    I have the same issue with my Cornet, but it's the 3rd valve that i have issues with.I had the casing shocked back to straight, and I had a tiny bit metal lapsed off, still does it alittle, but I just oil and play and it is slowly getting better (although when I empty my 3rd slide H2O key it is dark)
    I would take it to your tech and they can diagnose it for you (usually free) and then tell you the cost to fix it. You can choose what to do then.

    Good Luck,
    Jason
     
  3. VetPsychWars

    VetPsychWars Fortissimo User

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    2,152
    Nov 8, 2006
    Greenfield WI
    Sometimes "excessive" cleaning helps. Take your cheesecloth and swab all of the valves out every day for two weeks.

    Tom
     
  4. ComeBackKid

    ComeBackKid Fortissimo User

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    May 11, 2009
    Yorba Linda, CA
    I have a bunch of Ambassador trumpets and cornets and this is a very easy fix unless there is damage to the piston or casing - and I assume that you would already know that. The issue may be a dragging valve guide. If the guides become worn, they may have a tendency to drag on the valve stem. Whether you have brass or nylon guides, this can happen and here is a solution: remove each valve, then slide the valve guide as far up the valve as it will go (compressing the spring). Then while holding it, apply a slight amount of slide grease to the valve stem making sure you put it all around the stem and as far up as you can apply it. Then slide the guide up and down a few times to spread the grease and then reinstall the valve. You will be amazed at how much difference this will make - especially if you have a tendency to apply lateral force on the valve buttons when pressing them rather than purely vertical force.

    If you suspect it is the piston, try using a different oil - for example synthetic if you are currently using petroleum-based, just to see if the friction changes.

    If the problem persists, do a search on this forum for sticking valves. I have seen and posted in a number of them in the past. There are other things to try as well but they are very rare for Olds valves.

    Good luck with this but take heart that Olds valves are about the least prone to malfunction of any of the vintage instruments.
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2009
  5. dhbailey

    dhbailey Piano User

    493
    4
    Jul 28, 2009
    New Hampshire
    As a repairman, I have a minimum charge per instrument of $30, and that's usually all it takes for me to make that repair. I expect your local repair shop will have a similar pricing scheme.

    If it suddenly started doing this, you may well have bumped the instrument in the case which could have bent the 2nd slide in ever so slightly to cause this drag -- that's the most problematic valve because of the vulnerability of that slide. Nothing you can do will remedy that if that's the problem - you need a professional technician.

    If you notice a discoloration on the piston in one spot, that may be causing the drag and then some brasso and a soft cloth to polish up that spot can often cure that problem.

    Changing valve oil may help also -- I've become enamored of the Denis Wick valve oil, finding that it will allow me to play for up to 2 weeks with no drag on the valves at all.
     
  6. Brekelefuw

    Brekelefuw Fortissimo User

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    Mar 21, 2006
    Toronto
    I got the free sample from NAPBIRT when they sent it to everyone and I can't believe how amazing the oil is. Now I am just trying to figure out how I can convince my shop to stock it so I can get more!
     
  7. Blind Bruce

    Blind Bruce Pianissimo User

    Age:
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    Apr 17, 2009
    Winnipeg Canada
    What "free sample"... Nobody sent ME a free sample!....
    Is it thick or thin (for new or old) and is it synthetic?
    BB
     
  8. dhbailey

    dhbailey Piano User

    493
    4
    Jul 28, 2009
    New Hampshire
    Are you a member of NAPBIRT? I wonder how many members of NAPBIRT are members of this list? I'm one.
     
  9. Brekelefuw

    Brekelefuw Fortissimo User

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    Mar 21, 2006
    Toronto
    I know that you (dhbailey,) oldlou and I are all repair techs. There is one more but his name escapes me right now.
     
  10. tbaldrid

    tbaldrid Pianissimo User

    220
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    Oct 10, 2009
    ComeBackKid, your suggestion to:

    "Apply a slight amount of slide grease to the valve stem making sure you put it all around the stem and as far up as you can apply it. Then slide the guide up and down a few times to spread the grease and then reinstall the valve."

    saved me a trip to the repair shop. Thanks. And since I'm new here (just started playing cornet again after a 40 year hiatus--and got the buyin' vintage horns on eBay bug in a real bad way), I want to say thanks for all the great information I'm finding here. I'm reconditioning the "attic queens" I've been buying--simple stuff like replacing corks, springs, felts, adjusting alignment, unsticking stuck slides, etc.) and this is the best source of info I've found anywhere on the web for a newbie do-it-your-selfer.

    Tom
    Olds SuperStar/Ultrasonic trumpet ('73)
    Olds Ambassador cornet ('72)
    Wurlitzer American trumpet (Conn 14B stencil/'22)
    Conn 26A ('35)
    Conn 80A ('30)
    Keefer cornet ('22)
    Filmore cornet (~30's)
     

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