Selmer Depose "20" Transitional Trumpet?

Discussion in 'Vintage Trumpets / Cornets' started by Efig, Dec 11, 2016.

  1. Efig

    Efig Piano User

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    So I just bought another older horn which I wanted to use for my upper register work and becuase I heard they were very free blowing.

    SELMER PARIS DEPOSE 20 TRUMPET 1955 - Original Finish/Case/M.P. **GREAT PLAYER** | eBay

    This one is an old Selmer, I did a good amount of research on these. I'm come to the conclusion that this "Depose" model which means patened I beleive might be the "transitional version" between the older Grand Prix and the K-Modified Selmer trumpets. I originally thought this becuase of the lack of the "K-Modified" stamping on either the reciever or leadpipes on the K-Mods that I've seen online, no indication of "Grand Prix" on the bell and the bell engraving is different than the ones on the other two types. The reciever on this new horn just says "20" and no letter "B" after it.

    I've also read on the trumpet herald site somewhere that the Selmer "20B" which is a .456 bore is considered an "artist bore" being the choice for most trumpet players at the time rather than the Selmer 24B or the larger bore. Is it also true that the tubing wall on the 20B is thicker than the 24B? Can anyone confirm this?

    I'll get the horn within a week so I'll let you guys know what else I find.
     
  2. GeorgeB

    GeorgeB Piano User

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    I recently bought a 1952 Selmer Paris 21 ( also says depose on the bell ) and it has a .456 bore. Yes, it is very responsive. In fact, it is so responsive it lets you know in a hurry if you are trying to play beyond your normal endurance. I'll tell you , though, it is easy to understand why players in the early 50s like Harry James, Ray Anthony and Louis Armstrong loved the Paris made Selmer: what beautiful music those babies make. I've been offered twice what I paid for mine but I love it too much to ever sell it.
     
  3. Efig

    Efig Piano User

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    A model 21? I've never heard of it. Interesting!
    Same bore as the 20B.

    Does it only say 21 on the receiver part without the letter after it?

    I beleive Harry James switched from Selmer to H.N. White once the Kmods came out. He wasn't too crazy about those.
     
  4. GeorgeB

    GeorgeB Piano User

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    Just says 21. No letters. I believe B in the 20B models means it is a balanced model with the valves closer to the center of the horn. My 21 has the valves closer to the MP : different, but it has a nice feel when you're holding it. Mine is also in nickel and silver and in unbelievable condition. Whoever owned it really cared for it.

    You are going to like how it handles high notes, if it's anything like the 21, and I'm sure it is.
     
  5. Efig

    Efig Piano User

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    From what I know, the A stands for the Balanced models and B is standard. Your Depose 21 sounds like a great horn! I beleive the nickle on the slide tubing have something to do with the good upper register. I'm quite excited for mine, I heard that they also used French Brass on the horn, not sure about the differences between standard and French but I expect it to be a difference in responsiveness.
     
  6. GeorgeB

    GeorgeB Piano User

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    These two models were manufactured in Paris, so maybe the brass is French. Whatever difference French brass is compared to other brass is hard to say. I do believe the combination of nickel and silver has something to do with the sound it produces. It is also twice as heavy as my Bach TR300H2.
    If yours was silver plated, it would look exactly like the 21. You are really going to like that horn, Efig.
     
  7. J. Jericho

    J. Jericho Fortissimo User

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    If it plays even half as good as it looks, it's one awesome horn. Congrats!
     
    Efig likes this.
  8. Efig

    Efig Piano User

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    Quit getting me so excited!!!!!!!
     
  9. J. Jericho

    J. Jericho Fortissimo User

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    Here... this'll calm you down:

     
  10. tyleman

    tyleman Mezzo Forte User

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    I'm not sure "transitional"model is the right term for this trumpet, since there was a point when Selmer stopped marking horns with "Grands Prix" and the information about the various awards, but the horn looked exactly the same as those marked "Grands Prix." I'm also not sure "Grands Prix" classifies as a real model "name." But I guess people use that to differentiate it from the Balanced model. According to my copy of the 1953 catalog, it's a model 60, whereas the Balanced is a model 59.

    According to information I have, the K-mod was introduced in 1954, but that certainly doesn't mean a clear-cut end of of one model and beginning of another. In fact, even during the K-mod era Selmer was still making other trumpets without the K-mod leadpipe stamp. The 1961 US Selmer catalog shows the K-mod with a model number of 60.

    As far as I understand, there's no clear-cut knowledge about the manufacture of the K-mod, whether the horns were made in Paris and then shipped to the US with the K-mod stamp, or whether the parts were made in Paris then shipped to the US to be assembled.

    But according to information I've heard on the grapevine, questions about many Selmer products may be answered in the not-too-distant future. Including a proper serial number list for the cornets (a subject near and dear to my heart).
     

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