Short Stroke Valves

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by trumpetup, Aug 1, 2011.

  1. trumpetup

    trumpetup Piano User

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    What is the advantage/disadvantage of short stroke vales? I have been told they are only used with small bore trumpets and cornets. I have seen them on older trumpets; does anyone design a modern horn with them?
    Thanks,
    Bobby
     
  2. Solar Bell

    Solar Bell Moderator Staff Member

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    The Getzen Severinsen Eternas had a short stroke, even in large bore.
     
  3. study888

    study888 Mezzo Forte User

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    The King 2070 Legend/Conn Vintage One/Conn 52B Connstellation Trumpet has a short stroke valve action. Some of it comes from the valve being more recessed. The Conn Connstellation and King Legend Trumpet in .462 bore are same Horn. Differant name engraving on Bell.

    Some of the older vintage Olds/King Trumpets/Cornets had the short stroke valve action.

    I had a early 1950's all brass Olds Special, that had the short stroke valves. I liked the shorter valve action feel. Seems I read, it is more expensive to do,or limits the size bore of the horn. That may be urban legend.

    Did not know the older Getzen Doc Eterna Severson's had the short throw valves. They were in a .460 bore size and a .464 bore size. Good info. to know.
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2011
  4. trumpetsplus

    trumpetsplus Fortissimo User

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    The stroke of the piston is the distance to move it from up to down, from "open" to "valve". Manufacturers such as Conn (Vintage One etc) and Getzen (Severinsen, Eterna etc) have made it appear as if their valves have a short action by recessing them into the valve cap. In fact the Getzens I have here have a 0.010" longer stroke then the Bachs.

    There is a limit to how short the action can be, because the tubing knuckles in the valve have to be "threaded" past each other and dented to allow this. The shorter the stroke the more deformed the knuckles need to be.
     
  5. bumblebee

    bumblebee Fortissimo User

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    I suppose the valve levers on a rotary trumpet could be modified to shorten or lengthen the actuation travel required?

    --bumblebee
     
  6. trumpetsplus

    trumpetsplus Fortissimo User

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    Absolutely - cut them shorter or push them closer to the hinge/fulcrum for a shorter stroke. Be aware that this changes the leverage or mechanical advantage, so you would have to push harder, and have less control.

    You don't get nothin' for nothin'!
     
  7. Solar Bell

    Solar Bell Moderator Staff Member

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    Ivan is the man who would know.
     
  8. oldlou

    oldlou Forte User

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    My ancient and recently defective memory has lost track of which manufacturer made their trumpet and cornets with eliptical valve through ports to effectively make a true short stroke valve design. I just know that I once knew which company that was. It was a good idea.


    OLDLOU>>
     
  9. amzi

    amzi Forte User

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    oldlou, I believe you may be referring to Denis Wedgwood who called his off axis ports "ovoid". While there is still a Wedgwood website I believe he no longer builds his trumpets. I suspect that others may have adopted some aspects of his design.
     
  10. trumpetsplus

    trumpetsplus Fortissimo User

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    Old Lou was mentioning his old and defective....:dontknow:

    I don't know of older trumpets and cornets built in this fashion, but Conn certainly made Baritone Horns with elliptical ports for exactly the reason of shortening the stroke.

    I wondered what had happened to the Wedgwood ideas.
     

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