smile embouchure

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by chet fan, Sep 23, 2010.

  1. Brekelefuw

    Brekelefuw Fortissimo User

    Mar 21, 2006
    You can see the creases on his cheeks that are created by drawing his lips backwards and up, not by pushing them forwards.

    Anyways, it doesn't matter what he used.
  2. Moshe Mizrachi

    Moshe Mizrachi Pianissimo User

    Feb 17, 2010
    First, my name is Moshe. Use it.

    If you bothered to keep current, you would know that the poster named Morris is currently suffering from advanced cancer, as I found out after my post of several months ago in which I asked "Where is Morris?"
    He had stopped coming to SouthEast church and I finally found out why, and now I spend approximately 12 hours a day with him in his final days doing what little I can.

    Second, I never mentioned Reinhardt at all in this thread,
    although you falsely claim that my posts in this thread were centered on Reinhardt.

    If you would bother to read my posts before you respond to them,
    then you would have seen that I quoted from
    Page 56, “Trumpet Technique” By Frank Gabriel Campos
    in both of my posts in this thread.

    Virtually every modern trumpet teacher you can find, easily confirmed with Internet searches, agrees that the smile embouchure is bad.

    Third, since virtually every modern trumpet teacher agrees that the smile embouchure is bad, your claim about "freedom" means that the trumpet student has the freedom to do what every modern trumpet teacher agrees is bad.
    Which is true, but that example of freedom is also an exercise in pure foolishness.

    Several members have left Trumpet Master because Rowuk has posted antagonizing posts at them, such as Arthur Magazu who left just last month.
    Arthur and I had contact after he left Trumpet Master, and he was extremely indignant about how he was treated here.

    I will now permanently leave Trumpet Master, too, since that is the only way to escape antagonistic posts like the one above.

    The Trumpet Master link is now permanently removed from my browser list.

  3. B15M

    B15M Forte User

    Dec 30, 2003
    Monroe Ct.
    Why do people on here get so mad? It's just an Internet bulletin board.

    When I started the trumpet I used the smile method.
    Years later, a teacher changed me to the pucker method.

    Having used both, I got better results with the pucker.

    To this day, when I get tired, I can feel the smile come back.
  4. chet fan

    chet fan Piano User

    Jul 3, 2009

    Is morris chase fan?
  5. tobylou8

    tobylou8 Utimate User

    Dec 22, 2008
    Clash of egos I guess and some feel that they always have to be right. Personally I am here to learn and share what I know and what works and doesn't. I also think it's fun with the posters that aren't so serious. When I get tired I too feel my "smile" returning.
  6. tobylou8

    tobylou8 Utimate User

    Dec 22, 2008
    Tight! Thanks.:thumbsup:
  7. Bob Grier

    Bob Grier Forte User

    May 4, 2007
    Greensboro, NC
    Back in the late 60s I studied with Dr. Saul Caston For 3 years. He had been principal trumpet with the Philidelphia Orchestra for 29 years staring in the late 20s He thought that the smile embouchure was the way to go. Even as young as I was I knew what was really going on. For years when we looked at people play it looked like they were smiling with the corners when in fact they were not. It was a mistaken assumption based on looking at only one small part of the embouchure. The picture was incomplete. They couldn't see what was going on under the rim/in the cup which was a slight pucker. The picture of Clifford is a good example. If he was truely smiling and stretching his lips back across his teeth his corners would be pulled back a lot futher. Try it with your own face. We learned quite a few secades ago that true smiling stretches the lips across the teeth with no ability to resist any mpc pressure. This results in increased brusing of the lip tissue, a thin brittle sound and reduced endurance. A slight pucker in the center with the corners tucked makes for the ability to resist mpc pressure. a fuller sound and incresed endurance. This type of embouchure happens naturally when we learn to play and develop our embouchure as Rowuk states "in an intellegent way". I've never had to talk to any odfmy students about their embouchure. I have had to relenlesly coach them on proper air use.
  8. Phil986

    Phil986 Forte User

    Nov 16, 2009
    Near Portland, OR.
    I think Bob is right. Some players look like they have a smile embouchure, but it may just be the way their particular faces look when they form an embouchure that actually works just fine. In the end, it's just words that we use to try to get to what works.

    For myself, I found that I started making somewhat better progress in my comeback once I stopped worrying about embouchure and paid more attention to airflow. In my opinion, the best embouchure happens on its own when we close our lips around the airflow with the least possible amount of effort.
  9. fraserhutch

    fraserhutch Mezzo Piano User

    Jan 23, 2004
    Novato, CA, USA
    it usually turns out that those who are the most rigid are those who protest the most. I have not seen any personal attack against Moishe, but rather an attack against the ideas he presented.

    If you aren't prepared to handle that, keep your opinions to yourself. And realize that they are nothing but your opinions - there are few if any universal truths out there. There are valid (and less valid) observations and time-tested guidelines and even perhaps best practices, but I have yet to meet anyone who owns the truth.
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2010
  10. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

    Jun 18, 2006
    Moshe/Morris does not like contradiction. The world is full of it. The human state is NOT consistent, there is no one answer except hard work and a bit of luck. Success and good health are not planable.

    In an internet community, members come and go for various reasons. Most of the times the stated ones are only part of the truth. In the WWW there will be challenges to what we believe. If we have an open mind, we can learn something, even if that is only that we were right in the first place.

    Goodby Morris/Moshe. Better luck elsewhere.

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