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Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by rowuk, Sep 24, 2007.
Good post / points rowuk!
Please get a clue
Ichierzen, remember that all issues can be looked at on many levels, yet still be the the same fundamental problem. Just because tuning lost someone a job, doesnt mean that they play like a 6 year old. The level of playing is high, you're just looking at it like a guy right out of highschool.
I read over the quote from the #44 post again and virtually slapped myself in the forehead. I apologize for that, I've had a wild afternoon, but that's nothing more than an excuse I guess. Hopefully I won't just be digging a deeper hole...
What I do expect, however, when I'm out is to face nothing but people like my professor, who always stress intonation, rhythm, etc, and that those things are virtually taken care of. Sure, not everyone's ready right out of college, and you have to first audition somewhere. Even Dokshizer says he never felt truly ready as a professional until 25 years into playing - or something like that.
My statement earlier was simply arrogant ignorance. I don't come from a very good musical background, our district nearly lost its music program. I'm not looking for sympathy or anything, but because of that, I'm behind the standard collegiate level, and while being young, I'll grab at whatever I can to make myself feel better, because it feels like I face setbacks every day, with very few steps forward.
When I hear Dokshizer, or Vizutti, that's what I expect - perfection. Sure, it took them time to get there, and lots of hard work, LOTS of it, but I guess I expected more of a "knit-picky" reason as to why they didn't get it. I guess I'm just so far behind, I expect everyone else to be so far ahead. I'm most likely making them sound less-good than they are, I'm sure they're fantastic, but as far as schooling here goes, there's no room to miss anything.
Again, I apologize. I joined the forum to learn and share what I've learned and hope to help someone in doing so, if possible, and this certainly was a lesson, in anything, humility.
Music is a strange and wonderful thing, and for me, playing in a large ensemble, especially orchestra, is stranger and even more wonderful! The "gear in a machine" analogy is often used when describing playing in an orchestra, but for me, that doesn't quite describe it. For me, the orchestral player's part is like a piece in a puzzle, and for each composer, each work, that piece has a different shape. A good audition committee can hear that shape, and can tell if the player is just playing the excerpt or playing that part; they can tell if the player is imagining the rest of the orchestra.
Playing in an orchestra involves a level of hearing beyond just what is coming out the bell--we learn to listen "sideways" as well, even to the point of hearing and fitting in with the violists! How many of us, though, when listening to a recording really listen to anything but the trumpets? I suspect all too few, and I'm often as guilty as anyone.
Good time, good sound and good intonation are of paramount importance, for they are needed to fit that little 'ol puzzle piece that represents our part into the whole two-dimensional puzzle. This is expected as a given at the first rehearsal. Then, with a good conductor and a willing orchestra the magic will happen--little bulges will appear in the fabric, and what was two-dimensional becomes three-dimensional. The music will take on a whole other dimension that makes playing in a large ensemble, especially orchestra, strange and wonderful.
A good audition committee can tell where a player is really coming from, and a player caught up in the humble joy of recreating something strange and wonderful will simply not be affected by nerves. An orchestra will recognize its own voice with such an auditionee; this what an orchestra searches for.
I suck far too much on trumpet to audition for any major organization but I do know a thing or two about taking tests.
An audition is nothing more than a live test.
There are at least two major things tested during an audition (test) and they are the primary skills and knowledge AND the ability to take a test. The ability to take a test may be thought of a minor way of looking at performance under pressure.
I must assume that most anyone here who goes to an audition wants to win.
So what do you do to prepare?
First, do what has been covered in this thread. Study with a good teacher and get your skills and music knowledge down cold.
Second, get good at auditioning.
Try to get as many auditions as possible either real (best) or simulated. If you can't get trumpet auditions then try something different, singing, acting or other. The idea is to find out how you perform (and feel) under the spotlight of the audition process.
If you go into an audition and are nervous but excited to sho9w what you can do and go out and give the performance of your life then great, you are one of the people who mainly need to just work on their music.
If the nerves and stress of the audition cause you to perform at less than your best then you need work on the testing process.
High level auditions are too few and too important to use for training and practice so something else must do.
The problem is in your head.
Not to say it is not real or that it is easy to fix but that the fix can also be in your head.
A good NLP (Neuro Linguistic Programming) practitioner can guid you through excersizes that help shift the way your mind processes and interprets the situation of the audition and can help you find a way to get much better.
Visuallization and anchoring are powerful tools that you can use to put into your mind the image and feeling of giving a perfect audition performance and a way to call that image and feeling directly to mind right when you need it most.
YOU still have to do the work but NLP can give you more tools to get the job done better.
Pipedope, that is very well said!
What do the experts offer as "training ground" for auditions? Would Toastmasters be of use?
Hmm...maybe the Atlanta symphony audition...
I know, I know, you're saying "The Atlanta Symphony isn't the place to be getting your feet wet...". I'm not saying it is... I hightly doubt that anyone taking that audition hasn't taken a few real auditions or attended big time summer festivals before. For some one who has taken a handful of auditions this could be a worthwhile experience. And part of their already extensive and ongoing audition training...
When the BSO principal job opened up there was a first round for people who weren't invited to the semi's... No one got through... There were MAJOR players at this...NO ONE got through... Maybe those guys all need to re-think everything..........
Some of the above posts I would normally ignore but it's just so obvious that people are talking about stuff they just don't understand. Do you really think that people who are showing up for the Atlanta symphony aren't doing the things people are mentioning to prepare??
Again it's like saying to the people who don't make the cut at the Masters need to do more preparation, more simulation, more time on the practice range, more time working on their short game...blah blah blah... no kidding, what do you think got them to that level in the first place?? I think they know what they need to do...
Someone has to get cut in the first round...! People are forgetting the level of the competition and the level of the STANDARD being applied. To keep things on track, go back to the things that Tom said were "common" things that got people eliminated... it's almost a text book response... because in an audition if those things don't get you cut then what do??? Those are the things that a committee uses to weed people out.
There will always be people cut in the first round... duh... that's what the first round is for, to cut the field down to a handful of people. That's pretty standard really...
The reasons for advancing or not advancing at any level are basically the same, it's just that the standard is higher.
I digress... time to get back to reality...
I'm sorry, but if you're able to get invited to play, then by all means, prepare the best you can, show up, and give it your best shot. Shoot for the moon, and learn from the experience for next time if you fall short. There's nothing wrong with a little "real world" education as part of your training, in addition to seeking teaching/coaching and other opportunities to hone your skills. MAKE THE MOST OF EVERY OPPORTUNITY YOU CAN FIND. If you fall on your face, just make sure you get back up, dust yourself off, and keep going.
To those taking auditions, DON'T LIMIT YOURSELF with the stigma that something is "too big" or "too important." Even if it is for the moment, you still have to believe that it is attainable.
<steps off soapbox>
Now, regarding other "training grounds," I'll sit down with other colleagues and/or teachers and play through excerpts for comments in a mock-audition setting. This is the next-best thing to actually taking professional auditions.