So what do you think

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by Cornyandy, Dec 29, 2013.

  1. Cornyandy

    Cornyandy Fortissimo User

    Jan 9, 2010
    East Yorkshire
  2. barliman2001

    barliman2001 Fortissimo User

    Jul 5, 2010
    Vienna, Austria, Europe
    Just listened to it - before I saw your post. Weird, isn't it? Unhurried, yes; Unfortunately, unmusical as well. To me, it feels just as if the notes had been dropped out of a sack anyhow.

    Listen to this:
    Tine Thing Helseth, Hindemith Sonata (1st movement) - YouTube

    and this
    Paul Hindemith: Sonata for Trumpet and Piano: I.Mit Kraft - YouTube

    and this
    Thapana performed Hindemith Sonata I. - YouTube

    and finally, THIS
    Paul Hindemith: Sonata for trumpet and piano (1939), Maurice André - YouTube
  3. Sethoflagos

    Sethoflagos Utimate User

    Aug 7, 2013
    Lagos, Nigeria
    So you like the 'pretty' versions, Elmar ;-)

    I'm sorry but for me Novikov's interpretation is as close to definitive as I've heard. The piece was written in 1939, when Hindemith was fleeing for, if not his own life, then at least his wife's. And the desperation of those times permeate the piece through and through, culminating in the final "Alle menschen mussen sterben", (everyone must die). He hasn't put that one in because it's a nice tune!

    There are some positive elements of hope in the piece (2nd movement), but that falls flat unless the performer manages to convey the backdrop of horror and desolation in the outer movements. Novikov does sound a bit strange to us because he's old school Russian, and their style is unfamiliar for obvious historical reasons. But then Russian artists tend to do horror and desolation pretty well.

    I'm not going to slag off the other versions you give, but they're not for me. Never did like sugar much.
  4. gbshelbymi

    gbshelbymi Mezzo Piano User

    Jan 3, 2013
    Travelers Rest, SC
    The Andre version is roughly the same tempo as that of Novikov's. So, Elmar, are your comments based primarily on style and the rest of Novikov's interpretation, or on the tempo he chose?
  5. Cornyandy

    Cornyandy Fortissimo User

    Jan 9, 2010
    East Yorkshire
    I can see where you are coming from Barliman there is sort of disinterested quality to the playing, in this case though I think it fits with the bleakness of the piece. I'm not especially fond of the Hesleth version it's somehow too much like a trumpet concerto I can't really explain it. I do like the Andre although I note some criticism on the you tube page of his style, I wonder what your opinion of this view is?

    I think I'm going to have a hunt to find some more Novikov to hear whether thi is typical of his playing.
  6. Vulgano Brother

    Vulgano Brother Moderator Staff Member

    Mar 23, 2006
    Parts Unknown
    Several years ago, Ed Carroll started a thread about which pieces we "own." I countered that the pieces that "own us" were perhaps more important, and this is one of them. Novikov takes the Trauer out of Trauermusik. I found all the tempos a bit too fast (saves chops) and frankly, unemotional (saves chops). Very nice playing, but unemotional (saves chops). He cheats a bit at times (saves chops). I agree with Seth that Hindemith invested a lot of his emotions into this piece and he meant the tempos he wrote, too.

    A tres cool piece, the Hindemith, and for this one of the Vulgano, even prophetic. The following pictures come to mind.

    1st mvmt. Early Nazis: marching, building roads, growing the economy, making the streets safe. A couple of unsettling moments -- first this little fanfare (what, war?) and then later, the minor thirds of emergency vehicles, air-raid sirens and what not.

    2nd mvmt. naïveté, faked or real. Cabaret, everything's "fine." A movement lacking "substance." A parody of French salon music for cornet.

    3rd mvmt. Trauermusik. (grief music) Wow! Grief, anger, exhaustion and hollow resignation all mixed together at once. Extreme dynamics, better stated perhaps as EXTREME DYNAMICS. If it distorts, fine -- it should. Lots of sighs. Time should stand still. Read the beginning of C.S. Lewis' A Grief Observed for some good insights.

    4th mvmt. Alle menschen mussen sterben. Does this mean "all men must die" or "all mankind must die?" Check the lyrics. Is the trumpet painting or protesting the text?

    Alle Menschen müssen sterben,
    alles Fleisch vergeht wie Heu...,
    wenn er anders soll genesen,
    der so grossen Herrlichkeit,
    die den Frommen ist bereit.

    (All mankind must die
    All flesh will be like hay
    When it is that they are saved
    The huge glory comes
    For which the faithful are ready.)

    Genesen is tough to translate. In Mittelhochdeutsch (I got interested in this after realizing Swabians don't speak German) it would mean something along the lines of "findet sich einmal" (finding oneself once [and for all]) from the Latin "nisit convaluerit." Or, from the old High German (to be saved).
  7. barliman2001

    barliman2001 Fortissimo User

    Jul 5, 2010
    Vienna, Austria, Europe
    Speed does not matter in this piece - it's just that I've got an indistinct feeling that Novikov is just playing notes without any connection, whereas André makes musical sense out of the jumble.
    But then, I never liked the Russian school of trumpet playing much - a matter of personal taste - and that includes greats like Timofei Dokshitser. Even Nakariakov is not on my list of real favourites, even though I have met him several times and even once had a chance of playing a few duets with him. I must admit that I am firmly into the French school of playing (and BBB of course).

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