So what's wrong with China?

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by crowmadic, Nov 11, 2007.

  1. crowmadic

    crowmadic Mezzo Piano User

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    Oct 3, 2006
    I don't think "wind players" have to worry about lead if they play and instrument made in China, but, what is there to be concerned about? Has anyone played a Trumpet made in China? What do you have to say about it, or is it to imbarrassing to admit? I wish I could remember the name of the Flugelhorn Sam Ash was selling for $300.00 and what country it was made in but I can't. It wasn't China but it was being used by lots of professional players in Tampa Florida, according to the sales person who is a no BS person. What's wrong with the China product in the short term?..........crow
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2007
  2. tatakata

    tatakata Mezzo Forte User

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    May 29, 2007
    The trumpets from China I have come across are horrible. Horrible valves. Pathetic construction. I do not consider them to be instruments. Maybe things are changing.
     
  3. Bill McCloskey

    Bill McCloskey Piano User

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    Apr 22, 2007
    Perhaps the Jean Baptista? I believe that is made in China. I played that Flugelhorn today at Sam Ash and it was tempting because it only cost $300. The valves were very tight and unresponsive, but the sound was okay. I ended up buying a used Leblanc F357 which was nicer in every way to every thing there, including the Bobby Shew Yamaha - to my ears anyway - and $600 cheaper.
     
  4. Ray Vega

    Ray Vega Pianissimo User

    First off , let's get one thing straight. Taiwan is not where the cheap horns are coming from. They're coming from The Peoples Republic of China.

    The short of this very long and extremely complicated issue is this:
    China is a Communist country that has a long list of human rights violations and has been tied to supporting many groups around the world that can only be considered terrorist organizations.
    The Chinese workers that for the most part manufacture everything from trumpets to Barbie Dolls to plastic garbage containers...to possibly everything that we consume in the US, are underpaid and in many cases work in unhealthy work environments. They don't have the rights to challenge their system. You go to jail for questioning the system. Let's not overlook the fact that in many cases, children are forced into labor as well as prison inmates. Our purchases of items from China are basically bankrolling an extemely dangerous form of government.
    Corporate America makes a bundle selling cheap Chinese products for way more then they're worth.....trumpets included. The bottom line is $'s. Profit comes before human rights and basic decency.
    They might be making decent horns, but I refuse out of principal to purchase any instrument from China.
     
  5. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    How do we define "lots of professional players"?
    Just as in an any other horn, play before you pay is valid regardless where the instruments come from.

    I think that we need to be careful that we differentiate between the Chinese people (wonderfully friendly, open, hard working with 3000 years of basically uninterrupted culture) from the forces of greedy businessmen in the west and a pseudo communist government willing to bend ideological values to make a buck!
    If we want to trash something, we need to have clear in our heads that these horns are not built on a hunch that someone will buy them. The cold hard facts are that some western businessman (for instance a buyer at Wal-Mart) has clearly defined how much instrument that they want. This instrument is built exactly to the specification of the buyer. If they want different brass on the bell, a better quality valve or anything else, they can have it - for a price.
    This is maybe the opportunity to TRASH contemporary western values. Kids that are incapable of saving up to buy something (as long as it can be stolen by download over the internet), parents that need to keep up with the neighbors, trumpet players that place quantity over quality, teachers that make tons of illegal photocopies of copyrighted material........
    The list could go on and on.
    IF we demand value, that goes far beyond a specific brand of horn or its country of origin. True value add is in the relationship with the seller and that is what made America great and what the internet with its cheap "value adless" offerings is challenging.
    I have never played a chinese horn that I would use for performance. The reasons have NOTHING to do with China, rather the choices the western importer/music store made on what is acceptable!
     
  6. crowmadic

    crowmadic Mezzo Piano User

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    Oct 3, 2006
    I really had no idea that this question would arrouse such a political response. I'm glad it did because I too am concerned about the matters mentioned, and prefer not to support those greedy criminal actions, American or Chinese. However, if the opportunity arrises I will try this Bb Bass Trumpet w/pistons for my own first hand understanding and report back.............crow
     
  7. Mark Bradley

    Mark Bradley Pianissimo User

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    Jan 16, 2007
    Kansas City

    Right on the money here with the exception of pointing the finger of blame at the "entity" Corporate America. Corporate America is basically "us," is it not? Savvy business people make money off of Chinese goods because the American public likes buying stuff, there's nothing wrong with that. If the public prefers paying $10 for a Chinese Barfie vs. $50 for an "American made" version who's to argue?

    But of course you're correct about the oppressive, basically hostile country Commie China is, and the way we turn a blind eye to it simply because we get things cheap is an ethical issue certainly worth facing up to. It's up to each of us to make the "ethical" choices of whether to buy Chinese or not. Unfortunately so much is made in China it is practically impossible not to buy their products living the modern lifestyle we Americans enjoy-- half the time we never know where our material world toys originate and for better or worse could care less as long as the price is right.

    Taiwan (the good China!) is making some fine instruments-- coming up like Yamaha did a few decades ago. The new XO line from Jupiter for example is very good (and a bargain to boot).
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2007
  8. MFfan

    MFfan Fortissimo User

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    Kalamazoo, Michigan
    I agree, I have a Taiwan Barrington trumpet and enjoy playing it. Good quality and value for the price.
     
  9. brem

    brem Mezzo Forte User

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    Sep 13, 2007
    Quebec City, QC, Canada
    I agree with Ray Vega with his assertion of the situation up to a point. Like most countries, when they develop and go from an almost feudal system to an industrialised system, it creates all sorts of tensions. That's what is happening in China right now. Even though the people there are underpaid by our standards, they still, as a whole get richer. To deny them those factories would be denying them a way to improve their situation.

    Of course, for our rich G7ish countries, this means that our economy has to shift from a manufacturing economy to an industry of services and engineering.

    What's the solution so all can enjoy their fair share? :)
     
  10. Billy B

    Billy B Pianissimo User

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    Nov 5, 2004
    Des Moines, IA
    Kind of like the working conditions in the USA 100 years ago.
     

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