Thank you for your response, might have to try a Flip Oakes Flugel piece! I amusing a Denis Wick 4FL, 4BFL and mostly a 5EFL on a '72 Yamaha Silver YFH-731, but again I am not talking muted sound nor growl.....I can growl just fine. Airy, buzz is what I am after. I just naturally play clear and bright. I have to work at a warmer sound. I am not unhappy with Flugel sound. In fact I was going to sell the Yamaha Flugel ( owned since new) until I heard it recorded. I may post the recording, provided I can find my asbestos suit! I am sure there will be massive flaming to follow!