Soundproofing materials?

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by turtlejimmy, Nov 24, 2010.

  1. stricd

    stricd New Friend

    30
    1
    Oct 19, 2010
    Just a suggestion, but you might want to wait and try the soundproof booth before investing alot of time and money on your own. I would think that the sound absorbing materials would create an acoustically dead space that might not be very fun to practice in
     
  2. Glennx

    Glennx Pianissimo User

    208
    77
    Aug 16, 2009
    Ottawa
    Hold on a moment: are you sure you want to soundproof the inside of your room? Do you really want to spend hours practicing inside a sound isolation booth...with no feedback coming back at you from the walls, floor and ceiling?

    A suggestion: before starting this project, find someone with a walk-in closet about the size of your practice room filled completely full with towels, blankets and such. Spend some time playing in there and decide if you wouldn't perhaps prefer something a little more 'live'. If you want even more fun, see if your local acoustics research lab or university has an anechoic chamber, and see if they'll give you 5-10 of minutes practice time in there!

    If what you really want is to minimize the sound of your horn from bothering other people in the house, you need to soundproof the interior of your walls, ceiling and maybe build a floating floor - but don't soundproof the inside of the room. That's done mostly to minimize and control the amount of reflected (room) sound that gets into the recording microphone, so the sound engineer can have greater control over just the instrument - without the room.

    Rowuk recommends a largish room for practicing, and the sound coming back at you from any room is the key part of the feedback loop that gives you clues about your sound, etc. when you practice.

    Just thought I'd check on what you're really after. Hope this helps...
     
  3. turtlejimmy

    turtlejimmy Utimate User

    5,065
    1,005
    Jun 6, 2010
    Oregon
    Good thoughts, Glennx.

    I think what I really want is a place to practice in, during certain odd hours, that can be quiet WITHOUT using a mute of any kind. In other words, I want to replace what I'm doing now during those times ........ the Yamaha silent brass system ...... with playing the horn openly and loudly.

    At certain times, I can get away with playing with a Harmon mute fairly normally, but neither of these are quite the same, as most everybody knows. There's a lot of added resistance and it's not the way we're performing/recording on the horn, usually.

    As for the deadness of playing inside such a contraption .... I sort of figured that was the case. I'm guessing that, to be successful, it only needs to be soundproofed to the level of, say, what it would sound like in the room if somebody was playing the silent brass. That is to say, that outside the booth, but in the same practice room it wouldn't be any louder. Maybe, without the need for absolute soundproofing, it could be designed with materials that were cheaper and livelier. If that little booth had a layer of glass over the soundproofing material, I bet it wouldn't sound so dead in there. Could be more like ringing your ears lively.:woop:

    Not that you'd want that but a design possibility could be to have, in a 4 x 8 foot booth, the door at one end, with the window in it. So, for the trumpet player inside, they could be playing into a window at one end of the booth, for some feedback. The rest of the walls and ceiling could be soundproofing material. That's an idea.

    Turtle
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2010
  4. trickg

    trickg Utimate User

    6,793
    3,560
    Oct 26, 2003
    Baltimore/DC
    Sound absorption and sound proofing are two different things. In theory, you could actually have a room that was quite live on the inside, yet still not be heard on the outside. This is a subject that comes up quite often on the drummer's forum where I post now and again.

    Think of it like a thermos. Why does a thermos work to keep liquids hot for so long? Because there is only one small little ring around the mouth of the thermos where heat can transfer - the rest of it is separated by a dead space where there is a vacuum and no heat transfers through the vacuum.

    If you had the means to build a room within a room with a floated floor, that's the way to sound proof it to not be heard on the outside. One way to do this is that rather than to build a wall from 2X4s as the top and bottom plate, and 2x4 studs, build it instead with 2x6s or 2x8s as the top and bottom plate of the wall, and use 2x2s or 2x3s as your wall studs, staggered from side to side, so there is no direct solid contact between the two sides other than the top and bottom plate. You can put sound attenuating insulation (sold at Home Depot or Lowes) inside the wall to deaden it even further and to kill sound vibration that would otherwise pass freely through the air space in between. The reason that sound passes so well through a standard 2x4 drywalled wall is that all of the sound that hits the drywall on one side gets passed directly through the 2x4s right to the other side.

    Again, do you want the room to be dead, or do you want it to be soundproofed? Studios want rooms to be treated so that they don't get ambient noise or sound reflections off of the walls or out of the corners, hence the reason they have the reflecting and absorbing materials on the walls, and bass traps in the corners - while it makes it ideal for recording, it isn't necessarily sound-proofed to the outside.

    Just my two cents on it.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2010
  5. gzent

    gzent Fortissimo User

    3,724
    758
    Nov 5, 2003
    Rochester, MN
    In addition to Patrick's good suggestions, you can also take the step of putting the rigid sheets of construction insulation (Owens Corning PinkCore) on the outside of the structure. This will prevent sound from escaping, but won't deaden what you hear inside the box.
     
  6. fraserhutch

    fraserhutch Mezzo Piano User

    547
    86
    Jan 23, 2004
    Novato, CA, USA
    To really sound proof, you need mass. Floating a floor is but one means to inhibit the prorogation of sound waves, It will not do anywhere near enough if the walls and ceiling are not treated. it can be a big job, where forgetting one thing can really mess op the job. When I floated the floor in my recording studio, it was more to keep the outside sounds out.

    If you are really serious, go to homerecording.com/bbs (or the like). Read what people such as Rod Gervais and Ethan Winer have to say. Ask them for advice- they're very helpful.
     
  7. trickg

    trickg Utimate User

    6,793
    3,560
    Oct 26, 2003
    Baltimore/DC
    That's why a room within a room, or the staggered studded wall in addition to a floated floor and false ceiling are so important. You don't need mass - you need isolation of one environment (inner) from the other environment (outer) - just like with a thermos. A thermos doesn't work based on mass. I realize that with one we're talking about heat transference and the other we're talking sound, but the same concepts apply. If a person could build a room within a room and then create a vacuum in the dead space in between, their would be no way for the sound to transfer because sound, just like heat, needs a medium through which to transfer, and sound does not transfer through a vacuum. It will transfer through air, but not nearly as well as it does through a solid or a liquid. Any kid who ever grew up on a lake can tell you that - go underwater and you can hear that ski boat long before you can hear it or even see it above water.
     
  8. fraserhutch

    fraserhutch Mezzo Piano User

    547
    86
    Jan 23, 2004
    Novato, CA, USA
    Yes, a room within a room is a good way to go if feasible, because what it does is add mass, air mass. Mass that the OP apparently has no space to add.

    To the OP: Here is a good place to start: How to soundproof a room
     
  9. turtlejimmy

    turtlejimmy Utimate User

    5,065
    1,005
    Jun 6, 2010
    Oregon
    Thanks for all the info guys ... keep it coming. It's a good time for me to be talking to my cousin about it, he's building his booth pretty soon.

    I don't mind the idea of doing a lot of practicing in this kind of an isolated environment .... especially in the mornings when it would be my best time to practice, if I could. I'm also starting to get to play and practice in big classrooms at the University, so I get a sense of what that's like. My instructor is constantly encouraging me to PLAY LOUDER and we've been taking our lessons these last few weeks in big empty classrooms, where you have to generate volume to fill the space.

    Constantly being mindful of my volume, and holding it down, may not be so good for my development at this stage ....

    Turtle
     
  10. tedh1951

    tedh1951 Utimate User

    7,801
    2,360
    Oct 18, 2007
    The Wide Brown Land

Share This Page