SPEED TRUMPET ... Who are the fastest drivers?

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by turtlejimmy, Jul 8, 2010.

  1. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

    Jun 18, 2006
    I lost some colleagues in the mid-70s due to extreme speed trumpeting. Dirty needles will get you every time................ :-(
  2. Solar Bell

    Solar Bell Moderator Staff Member

    May 11, 2005
    Metro Detroit
    Ah HAH!!!

    A chance to bring back my old tonguing speed thread!

    Tonguing Speed:

    It is limitless.
    In the 30's Louis Armstrong was timed (with the old fashioned method) at the speed of 13.4 single tongues per second. (STPS). He was timed at the then amazing speed of 22.2 double tongues per second. (DTPS)

    As time and tenchiniques progressed, so to speed increased. By 1941 Harry James had improved upon the speed to 15.1 STPS and 23.9 DTSP respectively.

    In the fifties Rafael Mendez set a record which stood for quite a long time.
    Although some people thought he should not have been allowed to hold the record due to the unfair advantage of speaking a very fast paced language,(Mexican Spanish) he was finally allowed to offcially hold the record of 18.3 STPS and the then thought of impossible to reach 26 DTPS. (Most knowlegable people thought the 25 DTPS barrier would be impossible to break.
    This record was unbroken until the early 1990's when Wyton Marsalis shattered both ends of the record.

    At a special session just for the purpose of breaking the record Wynton played his way ito the history books. He single tongued has an amazing speed of 22 STPS!!! His double tongue speed was recorded at 27.4 DTPS!!!.

    At the awards banquet 3 days later Wynton expressed relief that the elusive records were finally his and that he could get back to his number one love of "Just making beautiful music on the world's greatest trumpet".
    He confessed that he did spend a lot of time working on his patented "Tongue in Cheek" method in which in between tongue attacks the back section of the tongue would hit the sides of hid cheeks setting up sympathetic vibrations in the oral cavity which would send another blast of air toward the lips. This would increase the speed of the tongue and give it a much faster response time. Somewhat like having a car drafting you in a race which would increase your speed.

    As players become bigger and better in shape, expect even Wynton's records to fall eventually. The techniques out there are just to good to have records stay for any great length of time again. Wyton will not pursue the record again. "I have nothing to prove to anyone" he is quoted as saying. "There will always be some tongue fighter looking to make a reputation, let him make it somewhere else, I'm done with this" Marsalis added, still tongue tied after three days of rest.

    Look for the record to be bested... but not anytime soon.

    As a side note, some mouthpiece manufactuers are developing equipment to help in the need for speed.
    The Callet company is doing R&D to see if his double cup mouthpieces will increase the speed. The thinking is that by employing the through the teeth and lips method, in a double cup, you will actually hit both cups with one stroke, thereby actually doubling the speed. The Rules and Records Commitee is looking into this, but will most likely rule against the use of double cup mouthpieces as a legal way of setting a record.

  3. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

    Jun 18, 2006
    22 x 60/4=16ths at 330BPM

    27.4 DTPS x 60/4=16ths at 411 BPM for double tonguing

    Why do I get the impression that someone is pulling my leg?

    All we have to do is connect a battery to the maouthpiece to get more power and speed out of it.
  4. ltg_trumpet

    ltg_trumpet Mezzo Piano User

    Jan 21, 2009
    Clifford :)
  5. Al Innella

    Al Innella Forte User

    Aug 9, 2007
    Levittown , NY
    I found this topic very interesting , no one had any criticism about keeping it musical,or don't forget the basics, etc. like they do when someone talks about building range to double C and beyond. I always thought playing the trumpet encompassed all techniques.Everyone assumes if a player is working on range he must be abandoning everything else ,but if it's speed then everything must be OK.
    Sorry to vent ,but it's something I've observed on almost every post about high notes.

    MTROSTER Piano User

    Jan 25, 2007
    I would go for Clifford Brown, and Sandoval can pretty well imitate any player past and present. But speed alone is just half the challenge.:-P
  7. Markie

    Markie Forte User

    Jan 4, 2009
    Clarksburg, WV
    If its speed you're looking for, try John Mclaughlin, Art Tatum, Johnny Costa, John Coltrane, Al DiMeola, Clark Terry.
    That'll keep you busy for a while
  8. turtlejimmy

    turtlejimmy Utimate User

    Jun 6, 2010
    Back from a long Rafael Mendez oddysee (sp?) ..... on YouTube (love that stuff).

    Dios Mio! Now THAT'S my kinda guy. His La Virgin de la Macarena is out of this world. And a bundle of YouTube videos of other trumpet players doing the same song .... Fun for comparisons. Mendez is just unreal on this, sounding by far the most "Mexican" (which to my ears is total heaven). Well, no duh, Jimmy .... Here he is giving a trumpet lesson, talking about his life. He's from Michuacan. Gee I like this lesson, what a nice man. How lucky for his sons to learn trumpet from a father like this ....

    Sorry to gush but I never heard him before.

    "Lots of recordings available as well as YouTube." (of Rafael). Thanks Lloyd. That's alarming. I'm in a "CD acquistion mode" and if that's true, I'm toast. I have to remember I have mouths to feed, not just ears.

  9. johnande

    johnande Pianissimo User

    Jun 3, 2009
    western Wyoming
    I saw Mendez in concert many years ago (1960s???). He played Variations on the Carnival of Venice with ONE FINGER (at least that's what he said, but his movements were so fast I couldn't verify it, even with the good seats we had). He also played Moto Perpetuo STACCATO without any evidence of taking a breath (circuit breathing, perhaps, which I had not heard of then). Lots of great players today, but so far I have heard none with the technical abilities that he had. Mendez' range was probably not as good as many of todays players, but every note was right on and tone was superb. His life story is interesting -- he started playing cornet at age 5 in his father's band, played for Pancho Villo (sp?), arranged and composed, played in movies, etc.
  10. turtlejimmy

    turtlejimmy Utimate User

    Jun 6, 2010
    Yeah yeah, caught the YouTube clips from movies Rafael was in. And the one where he appears on an old TV show .... he does a little dance in the middle of his solo which is too cool for words. Even cooler than Ziggy!

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