Start beginners on cornets?

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by cornetguy, Oct 11, 2005.

  1. larry newman

    larry newman Piano User

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    I started on an Olds cornet in the third grade..looking back, i think the smaller size and its accompanying balance was good for a young player.

    Many years on the trumpet intervened, until a Brit brass band became available, and i started really listening to my sound...now i'll take the cornet sound every time...
     
  2. trickg

    trickg Utimate User

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    My first horn was a hand-me-down, old, beat up, student model King cornet. I was always very self conscious of the fact that I was one of the only ones in the entire grade school that had a cornet instead of a trumpet, and the fact that it was really beat up didn't help. But, I played it until sometime in the 8th grade when the newness wore off of the Silver Yamaha trumpet my older sister had gotten (she got the Silver Trumpet, I got the Cornet) and she insisted that she needed a new trumpet. When I was handed the Yamaha and the King cornet went back in the case, my level off appreciation to finally have a real, bonafide trumpet was immeasurable.

    There's an intersting side note to the story though - horns have come and gone for me over the years, and I no longer own either the Silver Yamaha or the Silver ML 37 Strad that I got when my sister decided to stop playing, but I still have the King Cornet - it's still beat up, although it has been repaired to where it can play. One day I plan on having it totally overhauled; it was my first horn after all.

    Whether or not students should start on cornet, I don't think it's that important, and besides, a serious student will grow into a trumpet soon enough.
     
  3. Greg5850

    Greg5850 Pianissimo User

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    Jan 10, 2004
    WI
    cornet

    I also like starting beginners on cornet. I started on one and still hear that sound in my head, especially for lyrical playing.
    Sometimes the stores will let you rent a cornet, then apply the $ towards buying a trumpet.
    Greg
     
  4. trumpetmike

    trumpetmike Forte User

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    I agree with the first half of this sentence, but the trumpet-arrogance of the second half is incredible. I admit that it might not be as common in the States for someone to grow into a true cornet player, but over here there are probably more cornet players than trumpeters, through the brass band system. It is not one instrument that is better than another, they are equal (in fact, many of the top amateur cornet players will out-perform many of the professional trumpeters).
    If you want to make music your profession, I admit that there is a greater chance of doing this using a trumpet than a cornet (although there are professional cornet players over here - Roger Webster, Philip McCann, and others who have come through the brass band route only), but just because a student is "serious" does not mean that they will enter the profession and the fact that they don't want to enter the profession is not an indication that they are not serious about their music.

    One of the guys I grew up with was a very serious player. He attended Saturday College at the Guildhall School of Music, he studied at the Royal Academy of Music, he was (and still is) a phenomonal player. He doesn't do music as a job, he makes more money in finance. He still plays regularly (soprano cornet) and could outperform most trumpeters. I did a gig with him a few weeks ago and we were chatting about instruments (as is often the case when trumpeters get together) and he was saying that he hasn't had a trumpet out (before this gig) for about 3 months. He sounded pretty damn good on it, for someone who only plays soprano cornet in an amateur band.

    Making music is what counts - if it is on a cornet, trumpet, trombone, bassoon, violin, piano, harp, flute - whatever - spreading the joy of music is what matter, not what they play it on.

    If I have a cornet student (and they are a true cornet student, not just a player holding a cornet - if you don't know the difference, do some further listening), and they are not interested in changing to a trumpet (some of them aren't) I will not force the issue - I am lucky enough to be able to play both trumpet and cornet in the right style (for over here) and will teach my advanced students in the suitable manner.
     
  5. davidjohnson

    davidjohnson Piano User

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    Nov 2, 2003
    arkansas
    in the music room, i've built up (over 20 years tenure) enough good equipment that no student who wishes to play actually has to shell out money, unless they want a new topline axe.

    for trumpeters i have -
    2 yammies
    1 student line bach
    1 king cleveland
    1 bundy cornet

    i plan to replace them with cornets when time comes.

    dj
     
  6. Cornet1

    Cornet1 Pianissimo User

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    May 22, 2005
    Essex, England
    Yes, i completely agree with 'Trumpetmike'

    The youngsters that I teach from scratch are usually started off on trumpet only because cheap trumpets cost less than cornets. By the time the kids are about 6 months along I can already see those who will make good trumpet players and those who will naturally gravitate to cornet.

    I have very talented young players on trumpet and some very talented kids on cornet but I don't have ANY who are talented on both! I have come to see that this is VERY rare indeed.

    I see the trumpet as basically and extrovert, big sound, 'in your face' type of thing, actually very 'American'. I see cornet players and playing as basically more cultivated and introverted,....more English. It just amazes me how even quite young kids quickly split into the two camps and rarely move between camps other than by clear need or being for some reason pushed to change. It IS about fundamental character qualities in the individual.

    Currently I am not aware of any good American cornet exponents and similarly I feel we don't rreally have many exceptional trumpet stars here in the UK it's a cultural thing about the respective societies in my opinion.

    Historically in the UK the best cornet soloist tended to gravitate to the top trumpet positions in most of the UK's best orchestras but few have become internationally noted as trumpet soloists. Only His Eminence Maurice Murphy, the 'Star Wars' soundtrack soloist has the ability to shine on both instruments but he is an extraordinary talent and has the kind of technique which has massive impact and quality whatever he plays. He Was sitting in the top seat in British Brass Bands, the solo seat at 'Black Dyke Mills Band' when he was only 17 years old and now about 70 he still plays with fabulous verve and distinctive style on trumpet in just the same way he did on cornet. However maurice is the only exception to my unwritten rule that you are either a trumpet player or a cornet player but not both at the same time.
     
  7. trumpetmike

    trumpetmike Forte User

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    Maurice is by far the best known of the guys who do both, but there are others - Roger Webster has been seen with a trumpet in his hand recently (maybe that is one reason why he and Black Dyke have parted company?), Richard Martin (principal trumpet of the Northern Sinfonia) is an awesome cornet plyer and has recorded with assorted Salvation Army bands, James Watson is a mean cornet player alongside his trumpet playing and (to throw in one for the US side) Philip Smith plays cornet beautifully (he could fit into any any British Brass Band without any problems).

    I did once see Philip McCann play trumpet - it still brings a smile to my face :lol: :lol:
     
  8. Cornet1

    Cornet1 Pianissimo User

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    May 22, 2005
    Essex, England
    ".... one reason why he and Black Dyke have parted company?)..."

    That's interesting because the new top man at 'Dyke', Richard Marshall IS a very good trumpet player,....I don't know if I would go so far as to say he is as good on trumpet as cornet but then, he is a fantastic cornet player well up to the 'pinnacle post'.
     
  9. trickg

    trickg Utimate User

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    Baltimore/DC
    Apparently you completely missed my point. (sorry, I've been away from the forum for a few days) My point wasn't about making music or which instrument to "grow" into musically - my point was that a serious student who sticks with playing the longer instrument will eventually physically grow to the point where the length of the horn is no longer an issue.

    While I can understand the desire to defend the cornet as an instrument, especially if it is your instrument of choice between the two, maybe you should have asked just what it was that I meant before lambasting me, and calling me trumpet-arrogant.

    Happy New Year.
     
  10. KiwiKornet

    KiwiKornet New Friend

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    Sep 24, 2010
    Auckland, New Zealand
    In America, trumpets rule in school bands etc. In the British Tradition, which includes New Zealand, it is usually cornets. Our 9-year old joined a new start-up junior band, on tenor horn. I hired a trumpet then bought a lovely Blessing cornet as an adult beginner to support her.
    The kids' band now has BOTH, and it doesn't really matter. They make music.. great music, and have fun. I agree that holding an instrument can be a worry, this is one of the reasons that the violin is so difficult for beginners. The student is worried about dropping the violin AND the bow. Too little emphasis is given to feeling secure in this. With the tenor horn, our girl was simply told to hold it like a teddy bear, with great results!
    I would err towards a cornet as it is a little more compact, in a crowded room or band, and a little more mellow, so less likely to emphasise any indiscretions = mistakes. Finally, in America I believe cornets tend to be a little cheaper than trumpets of equivalent manufacture and quality. Is that right?
    But play what you have got, and enjoy! Brass is versatile!
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2010

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