Starting the TCE set road

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by Patric_Bernard, Nov 3, 2007.

  1. Patric_Bernard

    Patric_Bernard Forte User

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    So i've started my journey of the embouchure change. From what i think is traditional (Firm corners, tongue behind teeth, tons of air) To the TCE set. ( Tongue through the teeth, touching the bottom lip, top teeth touching top of tongue.) So far... I suck again, and i'm sure that thats to be expected. My Trumpet Secrets method book isn't here yet, but I've been using the ideas from Jerome's website and BAHB's websites.... I can only hope it stars getting better soon, cause i'm getting frustrated ha
     
  2. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    If you are attempting this alone, good luck! You will need it.

    You claim to be able to play 6 hours straight on another thread, why are you changing your chops?
     
  3. stchasking

    stchasking Forte User

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    It is unfortunate that you are using Jerome C. method. It is generally not accepted in the academic world.

    If you are playing six hours a day, don't change. You need a real trumpet teacher.

    Why on earth did you choose Jerome's method in the first place? Enlighten us.
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2007
  4. Patric_Bernard

    Patric_Bernard Forte User

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    Well its not that fact that I can play for 6 Hours a day or any of that, its that I use alot of pressure when i start playing about High E above High C. Also I tend to get light headed after playing so high for so long, I've passed out a few to many times trying to improve my endurance to light headedness.

    I started using the Jerome Callet Method because of Nick Drozdoff's lessons. I heard the kind of sound and range he could put out. I've also tried a few of BAHB's ideas, and may end up encorporating a few of them into my TCE set if it helps at all.

    Over all, I'd like to be able to play both extreme's without any pressure or major adjustments in embochure, and the TCE set seems to be the way for me.
     
  5. Miyot

    Miyot Pianissimo User

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    You should not be passing out. A blood pressure problem or low bloodsugar thing could cause a vaso. reaction. I'm not sure what it is called. Get checked by a Dr. Get a good tpt. teacher. Do not change your embouchure without professional help.

    We have all felt light headed a time or two. Sometimes when getting up quickly from a sitting position. Playing in the upper register should not make you pass out. You may not be breathing correctly. Get checked out.
     
  6. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    Patric,
    I am not trying to put you down, but this sounds like the deaf leading the blind.

    I guess if you can afford to royally screw up everything that you have now, there is not much that we can say. I am not taking issue with Callet, Drozdoff or any other method - but it sounds like you have NO IDEA what you are getting into.

    I wish you good luck, but when you are in the middle of your present and "new" concepts, there will be no one here that will be able to easily pick up the pieces and put them back together.

    That is why I think that internet lessons are not an intelligent way to establish a base (actually my opinion is much stronger, but I am trying not to be too negative). The odds of you getting it right are about zero. Not because you are stupid, but because there is too much that you do not know and therefore cannot judge.

    I think one hour with a good teacher is worth about 100 internet hours.......
    I see Nick Ds lessons on the net as a supplement to a good working system.

    I hate to see people waste time with things non musical. Sigh
     
  7. pops

    pops Pianissimo User

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    Nick was a GREAT player LONG before there was a TCE.

    He can do many things that most people can NOT.

    This includes the mouthpiece that he plays and EVERY embouchure that he has tried.

    It could be a real problem to base yourself on what a pro can get away with.

    He ALREADY had strength and control that you don't have. He could turn something around in weeks that might take you years.

    Using the same embouchure as another player will help you to be a pro about as much as buying golf clubs from Tiger would improve your golf game.

    It is NOT about what works for Nick. It is about what works for you.
     
  8. Patric_Bernard

    Patric_Bernard Forte User

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    Ok Woe... now before you guys Start saying that what I am doing with ruin my playing career forever, please get to know me and know MY strengths and weekneses. I know alot of things that you guys may assume that I don't know. I've had many different exeriences and know alot of things. I also know that if this doesn't work, I can switch back and be playing like my old self in a few months or so.

    I am a hard worker, I am determined, and I know that online lessons cannot teach you what real life lessons can. I also know that using an embousure that will enable upper register playing very easy will allow me to practice both range and dexterity at the same time, and spend a little less time on strictly range practice.

    I know that I dont know everything about trumpet playing, but neither does anyone else. Pro's simply know what works for them. I will never know what works best for me until i try other things, This just being one of the harder things to switch. I will Definatly try and get a personal lesson with someone who has mastered the TCE set, maybe get a clinic somewhere. I wont try once and give up, I'm going to do it until i'm doing it right. and thats that.
     
  9. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    Patric,
    nobody said that you were going to ruin your career. What has been posted however is a great example of how especially less experienced players should NOT consider or plan an embouchure change.
    Your chops are what makes the trumpet work and hard work has never been a substitute for maximizing the odds. Based on your posts, I do not consider this "switch" as having good odds. I see a certain risk if you have any commitments at all in the next year AND I want to stress that I have never experienced a successful switch back to the old way. A failed attempt to change embouchure generally means completely starting over as all of the good and bad habits have been corrupted!
    There are dangers in any embouchure switch. Your posts do not provide any evidence that you know what you are getting into or if it doesn't work what Plan B may need to look like.
    The promise of a better high range seems to be the common denominator for many self inflicted switches. I'll bet almost all of them fail. If you at least would have started with professional help, that means a personal visit to someone that knows better, a proper evaluation of your present situation could have provided a proper course of action (if any would have been necessary at all). What you have written shows that "luck" will be a major factor for your success.
    It is your face and we can unseen/unheard only guesstimate based on our experiences. When I read things that could be potentially harmful, I use the open forum to say so. This thread reeks of trouble.

    By the way: pros do not always know what works or what could be better- they know how to properly use what they have to get the job done. They also know that messing with success increases your chances of failure.
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2007
  10. wilcox96

    wilcox96 Mezzo Piano User

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    I am not choosing Pops' comments for negative reasons... I have much respect for him, as well as Robin. I only use it as a vehicle for illustrations and to further this interesting discussion.

    Why would anyone go to Pops? Because he has been a student of what works for a lot of people. I wouldn't tell folks to not go to him any more than I would say don't take a look at what Nick (or Callet) is doing. I'd also like to make another point about the internet lessons. Although I understand the point Robin is making...just simply viewing lessons doesn't necessarily garner the same benefit that the addition of face to face lessons might... Perhaps this is what Nick will offer in the future. Heck, with web cams...he and a student could hook up from anywhere in the world. Still is face to face. (so to speak). This may be the future.

    Experimenting...or better yet...longing to be better players is what we should always be about. Going about it as intelligently as possible is advised. Realizing expectations (all the while knowing that anything takes disciplined efforts), is equally important. From what I understand about this method, it is fairly unorthodox and very specific in it's approach. Going at it without some serious study (and personal guidance along the way) might prove frustrating). Regardless of what direction the OP takes...go at it with focus and determination. Have fun.... be the best you can.
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2007

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