Stop brand/model shaming!

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by Clarkvinmazz, Dec 13, 2015.

  1. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

    Jun 18, 2006
    There are collectibles, dustables, play before you payers and simple "blue chip" horns. Bachs in my not so skimpy experience belong to group three and Yamaha to group four. Ambassadors are a very interesting case as I have played many and I considered them in their day to be no more or less than a good student horn. Today, they are also a good student horn -perhaps with the liability of being old and potentially worn. Certainly nothing that I would take on stage.

    Clark does make a very good point however. I read it like this: many of the horn preferences stated here at TrumpetMaster have limited use to others because none of the really vital aspects of a horn are discussed. We have some basic stuff that applies to all horns: in tune, easy to play. Then we have characteristics that we have no adequate descriptions for: color and dynamics, articulation and projection, feedback and response. These hard to describe parameters require that we are familiar with the player claiming them. If the member only plays in a wind band, they have a specific use case where their opinion is useful to some others. That opinion would not necessarily help someone looking to play lead in a university jazz band or symphony orchestra however.

    As this is an open internet forum, the chance of quantifying opinion is about zero. I have learned to consider the source and generally avoid commenting on "vintage" horns of any type other than recommending to play before you pay whenever possible. I have had 1 bad and 2 great Bachs, but even used the bad one professionally until it was replaced. I am not n+1 so every horn that I own is bought to be played. My measure is whether a horn adds color to the palette that I offer those who book me. That should give a frame of reference to any that read my "review" but for those that do not know where and what I play, much of what I write could seem like a rant. That would be a chance to ask a question, but being the open internet platform, often indignation is the response to critical. Valuable bits are lost before the thread gets back on track. Fortunately, the bits weigh nothing and as long as we understand their significance, we do have a chance to get back to the subject at hand without much collateral damage.
    Brassman64 likes this.
  2. Dennis78

    Dennis78 Fortissimo User

    Feb 1, 2015
    I'd like to nominate Cecilio for bashing!
  3. Dennis78

    Dennis78 Fortissimo User

    Feb 1, 2015
    I believe truly that Bach and Yamaha are the biggest because of advertising. They are the only two outside of trumpet forums on the web that I have ever seen advertised. I didn't say they were bad at all, infact I own 3 Yamaha bass guitars because I feel they are superior to all others I have played. But as advertising has it in the bag it happens. Here in America it's the worst, there are companies out there telling people that clover and dandelions are bad for you grass, kill it out then apply chemicals that mimic what the former did for free!
  4. tobylou8

    tobylou8 Utimate User

    Dec 22, 2008
  5. Sethoflagos

    Sethoflagos Utimate User

    Aug 7, 2013
    Lagos, Nigeria
    Got to be careful messing with those Cecilians


    ...they've got really big hands.
    Kang-Ling and Brassman64 like this.
  6. trickg

    trickg Utimate User

    Oct 26, 2003
    Try decaf.

    Seriously, this is an open forum - if you don't want to read it, then don't. Many of us have a lot more experience than you, and we come to various conclusions or opinions based on that experience. That you get so bent out of shape, and posting of that nature "gets on your nerves," is an indication of your relative youth and inexperience. That's just this guy's opinion though.

    Rowuk makes a good point about the Bach Strad, and it being a "try before you buy" kind of horn. What I find interesting is the long-held belief that continues to persist that an aspiring student looking to up their game with their equipment needs to look no further than the Bach Strad. Moving forward from there and keeping in mind the fact that most of those kids looking to buy a new horn don't have the experience or chops to truly tell good from bad, and won't have anyone else to lean on with enough experience to tell good from bad either, it has long been my opinion that the Bach Strad is not really a great choice anymore, and that they should instead look into something that has a bit more of a reputation for consistency in quality, such as Schilke or Yamaha. That opinion comes from my experience. I played for the better part of 20 years on Bach Strads - two specifically. One was a ML 37, the other a Large bore 25. They were both solid instruments. That's not the whole story though. I've played trumpet for over 30 years (and I must do something right because I've gotten paid to do it since I was 17) and in that time, and in my experience, less than 50% of the Strads I've played or tried over the years would be horns I'd want to continue playing.

    I'm pretty open about that opinion, mainly because I think it is prudent that a person looking to spend that kind of money not waste their money on something that is not going to work well for them, regardless of whatever name or model might be stuck on it. This is an opinion I'll continue to post, regardless of your little rant about it.
    Tom Pennell likes this.
  7. Solar Bell

    Solar Bell Moderator Staff Member

    May 11, 2005
    Metro Detroit
    You should see what it's like on a Hot Rod forum!
    Brassman64 likes this.
  8. VetPsychWars

    VetPsychWars Fortissimo User

    Nov 8, 2006
    Greenfield WI
    I suggest Buescher because "no one" knows about them. I have almost no experience with other horns, so hard to compare. :-\

    rowuk likes this.
  9. bamajazzlady

    bamajazzlady Mezzo Forte User

    May 16, 2011
    I would only suggest to someone what I have limited experience with and everything that makes a horn worth buying or not comes down to the manufacturers quality control standards or lack of.
  10. edfitzvb

    edfitzvb Forte User

    Jun 10, 2008
    Woodlawn, VA
    I own a 1965 Model 37 Strad that rarely gets used. It's a good horn, but when I need to sound my best no matter on 1st 2nd, or 3rd, the horn that works best for me is my 1968 Olds Recording. The sound is simply regal. Although the Strad is a good one, and is lighter in my hands, and maybe a little easier to play, I still reach for the Olds. I don't bash any makes as a rule, but my experience is that most of the members here are reasonable people who are graciously sharing the benefit of their experience. Those that have an unreasonable bias don't seem to last long.
    Kang-Ling and Brassman64 like this.

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