Strange Thoughts

Discussion in 'Horns' started by Heavens2kadonka, Sep 27, 2004.

  1. Heavens2kadonka

    Heavens2kadonka Forte User

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    The Eclipse trumpet have their tuning slides on the bell crook, correct (I know its correct, I suck at introducing topics sometimes.... :D )? I was wondering if Leigh ever tried experimenting with keeping the traditional tuning slide AND using the bell crook tuning slide....

    Have any trumpet makers ever experimented with making double horn trumpets, or trumpets that could play in different keys? I know that if you pull a tuning slide out enough with certain horns (or is it all of them?) the key is supposed to change...

    Merging those two ponderings together, if majorly pulling the tuning slide on ONE changes the key, what if the supposed "two-tune slide" trumpet had both tune slides majorly pulled?

    Just wondering :D .

    Van
     
  2. bigaggietrumpet

    bigaggietrumpet Mezzo Forte User

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    Leigh actually did this with an Ambassador a guy sent him. The pics are posted somewhere around here, I think, probably in the general forum.
     
  3. Tootsall

    Tootsall Fortissimo User

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    Yee HAW!
    Yep.... what Aggie said. Leigh did it to Thevor's Olds Ambassador. The report from Noel Langley was that with the regular slide pushed all the way in and tuning at the bell bow it played and felt a lot like an Eclipse while pushing the bell bow in and using the regular slide it was "looser"... more flexible... like an Ambassador. This introduces the possibility of all kinds of experimentation using different "percentages" of each slide!

    Since then I believe several folks have asked for the same conversion to be done on their horns; not something that gets talked about a lot (or at all!) but something that proved to be quite successful.

    The "modification" depends upon the shape of the Bell bow and the location of the braces (to permit the rather different Eclipse bracing). The Ambassador is apparently one of the (few?) horns that can accomodate this "design".

    (I wonder if F. Olds is turning in his grave at the thought?)

    Do a search for "Ambassador" and "Leigh" with the author "Thevor" and you should hit the appropriate threads and pix.

    Edit: hmmm, seems Thevor has removed his pictures. I'm sure if you contact him directly either he can send you a picture or I'm sure that Leigh has photos of similar conversions.
     
  4. Heavens2kadonka

    Heavens2kadonka Forte User

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    Very interesting...... I will check and see if Thevor also listed the price......
     
  5. JackD

    JackD Mezzo Forte User

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    That's interesting about the bracing - would it work with a Bach?
     
  6. Tootsall

    Tootsall Fortissimo User

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    Neither Thevor (nor I) would reveal "our" price of any custom work that we had done by Leigh. What he charges is "what he charges" although I understand that his general price range is essentially the same as what one of the highest quality restorers in North America would charge (restore/gold plate for $500 and up). The thing with Leigh is that he cuts NO corners... his gold plating is 24 kt and from what he told me he specifies one of the heaviest "coats" of gold that anyone uses and he puts on over a coat of silver as well (some platers go directly onto raw brass which gives it a different hue). The best bet would be if you were to ask him up front for a price "range" if you were to send him an Ambassador to have the conversion done on. Of course the cost range could vary a bit dependant upon the shape of the original horn (again, same as with anyone else).

    If you wish to go to http://www.photobucket.com and check out photo album "TOOTSALL", then use guest password "shredder" you can get into my online picture album. THere is a sub-album in there labelled "Getzen" and in that are photos of my 1972 Eterna during it's restore/customization process. That should give you some idea of what he's all about on these special jobs. (I had him install Eclipse style water keys, finger buttons & tuning rings/saddle...convert the 1st slide to an adjustable one...remove the Getzen plastic 3rd retainer and install an Eclipse style one... remove ALL dents and dent wrinkles... give the valves a once-over... and then scratch brush and plate to match the Eclipse MR that he was building for me....I believe the two horns were plated at the same time in the same tank of solution)

    You can also check through the TM website to find FatPauly's posts about his Boston Three Star that Leigh tore apart and rebuilt... there is a link in one of the posts to a great set of photos of it during the process. And that's another thing... Leigh WILL document "your" project for you. Try that with some of the North American specialists!

    Jack, you'd be best to ask Leigh that question directly (about the Bach). I suspect not since I've never heard of him doing one nor seeing pictures of one.
     
  7. trickg

    trickg Utimate User

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    Where it introduces a lot of possibilities for experimentation between the two slides, wouldn't having the standard slide sort of defeat the purpose of the Eclipse tuning bell mechanism? I thought that the idea was to keep the resistance from the leadpipe/tuning slide to a minimum.

    At one time I was borrowing a tuning bell Schilke from a friend, but I found that for me, it functioned best with the bell slide all the way in, and I used the tuning slide for intonation, FWIW.
     
  8. Tootsall

    Tootsall Fortissimo User

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    I suppose a lot of the effectiveness is lost if, when the "normal" tuning slide is pushed in all the way, there is still a gap where the inner tubing "meets". If, however, the horn was built (or rebuilt) so that there is NO gap in the "airflow" (ie... not just at the outer sleeves where you can see it butt tight), then you should be able to maximize the effectiveness of either slide.

    I think that the "real" Eclipse tuning is still the way to go... for the simple reason that the lead pipe can have a continuous taper from venturi to 3rd valve. Any horn with a tuning slide "built in" at the end of the leadpipe (and Schilke's tuning bell has this) will need to have a "discontinuity" in the taper at the two locations where the slide fits.

    I also think that Leigh has something when he metions that even as good as a tuning bell is, there is always the issue of the different bracing; his design uses a rigid bell/bell tube mount with a cross brace between the leadpipe and the bell tube. (Having said that, I've tried an S22 with the Faddis conversion.... it is very, very nice!)

    Seems to me there was an auction recently.... someone was trying to sell an Ambassador on Ebay with the Eclipse mod done to it.... I lost track of the auction or sale.. it might even have been a private sale through either this site or TH.
     
  9. Seinman

    Seinman New Friend

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  10. bigaggietrumpet

    bigaggietrumpet Mezzo Forte User

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    First, that is a work of art for a trumpet. Beautiful.

    Second, WHY THE HECK ARE YOU SELLING IT?! I'd sell my firstborn child (which I don't have) before I'd sell a horn like that!
     

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