Student cant get a sound

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by cornetguy, Oct 13, 2005.

  1. cornetguy

    cornetguy Mezzo Forte User

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    Sep 12, 2005
    Saint Paul, MN
     
  2. Rick Chartrand

    Rick Chartrand Piano User

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    Nov 22, 2004
    Toronto Canada
    Afrer re-reading your post I'm not sure what the exact problem is. Are you saying that this kid cant even get a tone out, or are you saying that the sound is 'thin pinched and aweful for a beginner'? If this kid CAN get a tone then you have to work with him. You have to help the student understand and VISUALIZE the correct Embouchure posture. Perhaps buzzing with a (I think they are called O-Rings) placed over his lips, while buzzing in front of a mirror will solve this kids problems. We all have lips and we all can play, we just have to know HOW to do it.

    I'm sorry to sounded a little harsh, that wasnt my intent. Im just saying that if you cant (after all else fails) even get her to make a tone...then what else can you do? Maybe get her on a cornet or a flugel perhaps?

    Maybe I'm an exception but after a week of playing I knew how to play a complete 'C' scale, and after a few weeks I could play the full chromatic 'C' scale. I was actually playing some of the simpler of Miles Davis tunes after only a month or so of playing as my ear and abosrbtion of theorie was excellent.

    So when I hear that a child cant make a tone at all then you have to scratch your head and wonder...You know?

    ___________________
    Work hard for what you want, and you’ll get it

    Equipment
    Martin Committee Trumpet, T3467RE
    Holton Heim # 2 Mouthpiece

    Rick AKA Trumpet Man
     
  3. bandman

    bandman Forte User

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    Oct 16, 2004
    Lafayette, LA, USA
    Oh my dear Rick,

    If you could play a scale after a week, and a full chromatic scale after a few weeks, you are the exception to the rules of teaching a student. I've had a few naturals like you over the years, but none that progressed at the rate you state in your post. My only regret is that you were not in my school so I could sit and watch you progress. When things get frustrating for a band director it would be really nice to sit back and watch a natural who could not only play, but could be put to work helping his peers.
     
  4. Rick Chartrand

    Rick Chartrand Piano User

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    Nov 22, 2004
    Toronto Canada
    Bandman says...
    Oh my dear Rick.

    :lol: Ok here we go...here comes the jealous sarcasm and doubt.

    Yes I am an exception to the rule so I've been told. When I was a student player 15 years ago I tended to stay away from helping others for the simple reason that when other students found out how much I accomplished in such a little time, they would a lot of times be jealous, and subsequently wouldnt take me seriously.

    I've run into a bit of the same attitude on this site a few times, most recently when I ran a post on endurance. I stated that my endurance is about 5 hours on a Heim #2, I noticed a few posts that had some underlying resentment because 5 hours of endurance is considered abnormally high.

    I even get this attitude sometimes from other trumpet players I work with. When they say that their endurance is only 3 hours or less I just think to myself, my God whats the matter with other horn players. I had that small endurance after playing for 4 to 5 years. Ive been playing for 15+ years, so Im supposed to stay at a measly 3 hours of endurance and not imprpve in the following 10 years? Thats not who I am or what I do. I love to continually improve, learn and push the envelope to its limits. But have learned to keep quiet about my accomplishments. I just do what I love by playing my horn and usually wowwing my audience. All I wanna do is learn and make people feel the way Miles made me feel when I saw him so many years ago in 1990.

    I've learned that jealousy is a useless emotion. I realized this when I met my wife. She can read a book so fast that it makes most people's head spin, but thats her gift and I admire it. Just like I admire gifts in others.

    Anyway this post isnt about what I can do on my horn, its about your student that is having a hard time making a correct tone. I wish you the best of luck with your student and hope that perhaps the O-Ring visualization technique I suggested may help.

    ___________________
    Work hard for what you want, and you’ll get it

    Equipment
    Martin Committee Trumpet, T3467RE
    Holton Heim # 2 Mouthpiece

    Rick AKA Trumpet Man
     
  5. cornetguy

    cornetguy Mezzo Forte User

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    Sep 12, 2005
    Saint Paul, MN
    Had class last night.

    Tried having her just flap her lips which she could do sucessfully. Had her buzz on the rim on a stick and foudn that she was puckering too much, got her aware of that and to be aware of it by feel and sound. When she puckered too much but not as extreme she would get a really crappy sound even for a beginner. Also fished out the 1.5 B in my collection for her to use a little while. Is easier for her to get buzz on too I think.

    Now she can get the G but not the C without bending down to it or sirens on the mouthpiece. But That is preferable to struggling just to get a sound.
     
  6. Rick Chartrand

    Rick Chartrand Piano User

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    Nov 22, 2004
    Toronto Canada
    A piece of advice bandman

    If you want to impress someone about one of your students accomplishments, tell people that they are first chair in the Toronto Symphony or the New York Phillharmonic. Not playing in some dollar dirthole like Mcdonalds or some backwoods University of southern Missisippi.

    And if it takes you 'months' to get a kid to get a tone then you are either trying to kiss your faculty's butt to protect your job, by trying to pretend that you can get a non talented kid to play, or youre a crappy teacher :bleah:
    ___________________
    Work hard for what you want, and you’ll get it

    Equipment
    Martin Committee Trumpet, T3467RE
    Holton Heim # 2 Mouthpiece
    Bach 1c Mouthpiece

    Rick AKA Trumpet Man
     
  7. Manny Laureano

    Manny Laureano Utimate User

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    Sep 29, 2004
    USA
    Rick,

    Obviously you disagree with bandman but I don't think he deserved that. Wasn't he just making the point that sometimes, not all times, it takes a while for someone to find their way?

    ML
     
  8. Rick Chartrand

    Rick Chartrand Piano User

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    Nov 22, 2004
    Toronto Canada
    Hey Manny

    Youre right Manny but this is a little bit of a tender spot for me. And I have always detested hypocracy. When I was a kid I wanted to be an actor more than anything else. I suffered through an entire year with a teacher who kept stringing me along to protect his job...trust me on this one Manny. Anyway after finially overhearing him say to another teacher that 'I stunk' as an actor, I think my reaction to bandman taking forever to get a kid to make a straight tone is understandable.

    In an ironic way I suppose I should thank that teacher because if I didnt finially hear behind my back that I stunk as an actor, then I would have never found my true love and calling, playing the trumpet professionally.

    ___________________
    Work hard for what you want, and you’ll get it

    Equipment
    Martin Committee Trumpet, T3467RE
    Holton Heim # 2 Mouthpiece
    Bach 1c Mouthpiece

    Rick AKA Trumpet Man
     
  9. bandman

    bandman Forte User

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    Oct 16, 2004
    Lafayette, LA, USA
    Rick,

    The tone of your post displays your ignorance, but I'll point two things out to you.

    1) The McDonald's All-American Band is one of the highest-level honor bands in the nation with membership of 2 people from each state.

    2) The University of Southern Mississippi has long been respected as one of the finest schools of music in America.

    As far as me being a crappy teacher, I don't think that I need to answer to someone who knows nothing at all about me. You throw darts when you realize you are wrong, and someday when you mature you will realize that this was a childish thing to say.

    I wonder about your level of proficiency when you state "first chair in the Toronto Symphony or the New York Philharmonic" rather than using the proper terminology. You also fail to realize that there are very few principal players in the world. There are only about 100 of thee positions as compared to millions of trumpet players. I doubt that many people can make a claim that one of their students are principal players in any major symphony. That makes them no less of a great teacher.

    Rick, If you don’t mind, you claim to be a professional trumpet player. Please tell us a little about where you play. What symphony is it for which you are the principal trumpet player?
     
  10. Eclipsehornplayer

    Eclipsehornplayer Forte User

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    Sep 14, 2005
    Metro Detroit
    Wow, guys can't we all just get along!

    this was a harsh exchange to watch, I have really nothing to add other then this.

    Rick, actions speak lounder then words. However, your words are speaking quite loudly here in cyberspace. Is this the way you want to be perceived. A pompus, smart ass know it all, or would you rather be perceived as a proud Canadian trumpeter.

    Here's my point, the guy is teaching college folks who will most likely never play the instrument again because it is a requirement of the school for the degree that they are trying to attain. He has to continue to work with the student in order to pass the student.

    Rick, you may or may not have known that, but in any event we'd all benefit from this place much more if these types of exchanges were avoided. :cool:


    Now I know, sometimes these things happen, I'm not that ignorant. But remember there are many young and developing players as well as "comebackers" like myself who look up to you. Don't blow that for yourself!
    Peace my friends
     

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