Studying

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by DanzilF, Sep 26, 2007.

  1. DanzilF

    DanzilF New Friend

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    HI all, before I start asking questions I want to remind you that I'm still green and I'm not a professional trumpeter at all although I've been playing it for around 8 years. So I need your help. I want to take it seriously now :-o :D

    At the moment I'm doing long notes, starting from C and doing the same note over and over again, until I'm satisfied with the tone and sound of the note. Now my sister's boyfriend, who is quite a good trumpeter, gave me the Denis Wick 4E mouthpiece to try, since I was not happy with the previous mouthpiece (Vincent Bach 7E).

    Well, I've been playing with it for some weeks now, and to say the truth I find it better than the VB7E. But, now air is going out from the sides of the mouthpiece as well, so I can here that air sound coming from the side. I hope you understood what I'm trying to say.

    What could be the problem. Maybe I need to study more so my lips will get used to it or anything else? Mind that my lips are quite big. Not sure if it's a downside or not. But sometimes I notice when I'm playing the mouthpiece (the trumpet) will slide downwards usually. So I have to stop for a second and move it upwards again. Well, this was with the other mouthpiece actually, not too much with this one.

    I was thinking of trying one with a wider cup diameter. Does it make sense at all, since my lips are not the smallest ;-) ? I came to this whilst viewing this comparison chart...

    http://www.deniswick.com/dw_leaflet_06.pdf

    I know most of you are going to suggest finding a professional trumpeter as a teacher. Of course that would be nice, but at the moment I'm so so so busy that I can't add anything more in my lifestyle. For sure I will once I settle. But thaat's personal now, it's not going to make any difference for you :dontknow: Until it's the time, I will follow pros like you on this forum :-)

    Well, thanks in advance :cool: until I get an answer .... continues long notes:lol:

    Daniel.
     
  2. veery715

    veery715 Utimate User

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    Mar 6, 2007
    Ithaca NY
    Those mouthpieces are quite shallow, and if your lips are big maybe you should try deeper cups. A bigger rim diameter might also fit better, bringing the area where air is escaping under the fit of the MP.
    You should do some buzzing w/o the horn too, to help figure out why you are moving things down. Do long tones and downward slurs (C-G-C) and if you can get the slur to fall by itself w/o blowing it down, try it on the instrument.
    You are right about seeing a teacher. Maybe you could arrange just one lesson in your busy schedule.
     
  3. valejazz

    valejazz New Friend

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    I think that if you have big lips a 7E is small and shallow...I cannot say which size is good for you...but you could try a DW 3 and use it as a starting point to determine the right mp for you.

    Of course a good teacher can be of great help solving your problem quickly ;)
     
  4. DanzilF

    DanzilF New Friend

    Age:
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    Yup, seeing a teacher is the best option. I promise to do this as soon as I settle down :-)

    I'll try to do some buzzing with the mouthpiece as well. I remember doing this as my first exercise. My first teacher told me to lay down on the bed and buzz in the mouthpiece for sometime before sleeping.

    As regards to the mouthpiece. I think I will get a DW 3 and try it for some time. Why is the Heavytop? I've seen some professional trumpeters using this type of mouthpiece.

    As I was playing long notes, I ntoiced that I don't keep the same sound level. It's like doing crescendo sometimes, not that much but I can hear the difference. It's like when you don't keep the trumpet steady, or when you play and walk so the trumpets moves and the sound level changes. But I'm not moving, I'm just steady. Again, I think this could be because it's been a long time now since I studied.

    Thanks guys, you'r so helpfull :)
     
  5. Bear

    Bear Forte User

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    Apr 30, 2004
    USA
    I will have to agree with the previous posters... If you have big lips then you ought not try to play a shallower piece than your previous one. Why Tim? Well, if your lips are xx big and the mpc is xx shallow, it will lead to problems such as you bottoming out (meaning your lips make contact with the bottom bowl of mpc and the vibration stops) or several other various nuances. You mentioned sound, what sound are you looking for? Can you describe it? The air out of the sides may be from several factors including pressure, a bad embouchure, nonequillibruim between lips/air, etc. It really would be a good idea to find a pro in your area. Even if it's just a one time call to set things up.

    Do you have an under/over bite? You talked a little about moving the trumpet. Take care.
     
  6. DanzilF

    DanzilF New Friend

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    yup that's the word, bottoming out. Well, actually it's the otherway round. The mouthpiece moves downords most of the time.

    Well, as for sound, as I already said it could be because I haven't studied for sometime now... years. So the sound comes out with air as well. Tone and air which doesn't sound great.

    Might try to see my last teacher again. He's not a trumpet player, but he plays the trombone and Euphonium. He also plays with the national orchestra so he's quite good :)

    Jesmond Azzopardi

    It's difficult to describe the sound I can produce, unless I record some long notes.
     
  7. veery715

    veery715 Utimate User

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    Mar 6, 2007
    Ithaca NY
    If air escapes outside the mouthpiece something is preventing it from passing through your aperture (the opening between your lips where the vibration begins). If the cup is shallow and your lips are contacting with the mouthpiece inside the cup, then vibration is inhibited there, buzzing doesn't happen or is greatly reduced, and air may be forced to the outside. If the rim inner diameter is too small, this reduces the size of your aperture, and once again when you blow your air has to go somewhere else.
    1. Relax. Buzz the mouthpiece.
    Can you feel the bottom of the cup with your lips? It is too shallow if you can.
    2. Relax!
    With mouthpiece off the horn, buzz on it and think of the opening (aperture) as a football shape. Try to keep it that shape and buzz low notes. If it sputters there but becomes easier on higher notes, then likely you need a larger diameter rim.
    Generally shallower cups and smaller rims facilitate the (extreme) upper register. From the Bach Mouthpiece manual:
    "A player using a medium-large bore B
    or C trumpet or a B
    cornet should generally
    use a mouthpiece no shallower than
    the Bach C cup and preferably, slightly
    deeper cups such as a B or A. One exception
    is for musicians who continually
    play in the extreme high register and
    desire a brighter sound. In this case, a
    more shallow mouthpiece such as a 3D,
    3E, 3F or 5SV may be preferable"
    -and-
    "We recommend that all brass
    instrumentalists
    professional artists,
    beginners or advanced students; symphony,
    concert or jazz band
    use as large a cup
    diameter as they can endure and a fairly
    deep cup. A larger mouthpiece with a
    fairly deep cup offers the advantages of
    a natural, compact, and uniform high,
    middle and low register, improved lip
    control, greater flexibility, and avoidance
    of missed tones. A larger-sized mouthpiece
    will also offer greater comfort, making
    it possible to secure a good tone quality
    even when the lips are swollen from too
    much playing"


    Try a 3C.
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2007
  8. Ichierzen

    Ichierzen Pianissimo User

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    Sep 22, 2007
    Hi,

    I've only been playing for a few more years than you, so I'm no "expert," but I like to think that masterclasses can teach you a thing or two, haha.

    From my experience, I'd say that if the mouth piece is either sliding up or down, that you're either moving your lips more than you think or want to, or your head is moving, or you're tilting the trumpet, or not holding it tight enough against your face. That isn't to say you should press it in as hard as you can - you'll destroy your embouchure that way.

    If I were you, I'd practice just holding the trumpet in the air, in front of you, then blow air out and slowly bring the trumpet to your lips until it'll play, this should require relatively little force against the lips.

    As others said - buz more. Take the extra weight of the trumpet off (take the mouthpiece out), and get it so the mouthpiece comfortably sits against your lips, and just buz away until it feels like nothing, then add the trumpet again.

    As far as sound and dynamics go, support more - use more air. Make sure you're breathing from the bottom of your belly, instead of pulling it in all up top, and use your diaphragm to push it out. Make sure it pushes steadily, and I think that'll fix your problem.

    Also, if this helps, I've started something new that came to me, and I think I even read about before. You know how you buzz on the mouthpiece? Well, try it against the leadpipe. By that, I mean buz into the leadpipe without a mouthpiece and try to get a note to sound as it would with a mp. Be sure to use absolutely NO pressure - try forming your lips so it'll play. I think this will help form the embouchure more, and when you try it with the mp, I've found it dramatically helps the sound and tone, as well as makes tongueing easier since there's more air being pushed out.

    I hope that helps. And if anyone knows if my last idea is good for him or not, or if anyone's tried it, I'd like to hear about it, but I think it'll help because when I first tried it, I had air escaping my lips, but once I got it, it was awesome, and really helped sound wise.
     
  9. DanzilF

    DanzilF New Friend

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    Interesting, will let you know tomorrow of the results friends. Have to go to sleep, busy day tomorrow.
     
  10. valejazz

    valejazz New Friend

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    Work on a standard mp not a heavytop or megatone...its additional mass is something you will be able to test later, only after settling on the right mp for your lips ;)
     

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