Submit the best reason for this to happen and win a Free Trumpet Ensemble Arrangement

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by Branson, May 25, 2014.

  1. Branson

    Branson Piano User

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    Submit the best reason for this to happen and win a Free Trumpet Ensemble Arrangement Of Your Choice!

    Selection of best reason will be made on June 1, 2014.

    Why Does This Happen?
     
  2. ConnDirectorFan

    ConnDirectorFan Fortissimo User

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    Re: Submit the best reason for this to happen and win a Free Trumpet Ensemble Arrange

    All I can say is [and this is probably one of the worst "theories" I have ever written, so I won't post it on The Trumpet Blog]:

    I tried the same experiment. However, I think an "air pocket" is present somewhere within the bell, because:

    If I started the trumpet at the bottom of the sink, the "air" that was in the bell comes out through the mouthpiece as I push the horn down
    [note that I put the horn in the water without my lips already on the mouthpiece]
    and the horn is extremely sharp when I first begin playing, since the tubing length was shortened because of the water.

    However, after a few seconds of playing, the horn gets flatter, since my playing/"air"/CO2 had expelled the water that had been filling the bell up to a certain point.

    Then the note I am playing stays consistently "in tune" when the horn is in the water, due to an "air pocket" or "buffer region" somewhere in the bell.

    So maybe it still has to do with shortening of the tube length? Or does that have to do with the "resonant space" in front of the bell [i. e. a horn gets sharper if you put the bell against a wall]?

    Okay, I think I confused myself :duh: :stars:

    I'm afraid I may not have explained this well [I have a habit of such], but feel free to ask if you have questions [other than "CDF, how could you come up with such a bad theory?"] :lol:
    I'll probably be able to clear this up once someone [who isn't a quack scientist like me] posts their thoughts
     
  3. jiarby

    jiarby Fortissimo User

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    Re: Submit the best reason for this to happen and win a Free Trumpet Ensemble Arrange

    Sound waves propagate through water at a different rate than through air. Try it with liquids of different viscosities.
     
  4. ConnDirectorFan

    ConnDirectorFan Fortissimo User

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    Re: Submit the best reason for this to happen and win a Free Trumpet Ensemble Arrange

    Of course - the answer I could have said but never made the connection between trumpets and science classes :lol:
    The sound waves travel fastest through solids, then liquids, then air. So that is why the trumpet sounds sharper in a bath of water

    Just now I tried using a small bottle to plug the bell, and the horn got sharper, but the partials were all shifted [or otherwise changed] - this is easiest to demonstrate with a pocket trumpet, I think...
     
    Sethoflagos likes this.
  5. TrumpetMD

    TrumpetMD Fortissimo User

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    Re: Submit the best reason for this to happen and win a Free Trumpet Ensemble Arrange

    Why does your trumpet tend to play sharp when you use a mute? I don't know the answer, but I suspect it may be for the same reason as in the sink/water video.

    BTW, I'll be heading to the US Patent Office on Tuesday to put in my patent for the "sink mute". It's a little fish bowl that fits on the end of your trumpet. Fill it with water or your favorite potable. ;-)

    Mike
     
  6. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    Re: Submit the best reason for this to happen and win a Free Trumpet Ensemble Arrange

    The reason is well known to trumpet players in historically (hysterically) informed playing community. There is math behind it and we CAN get up to a whole tone, albeit with certain disadvantages - all the details after 1. June......

    There are even pieces written that need the effect - except for the sink........
     
  7. Sethoflagos

    Sethoflagos Utimate User

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    Re: Submit the best reason for this to happen and win a Free Trumpet Ensemble Arrange

    Air is compressible. So it 'cushions' the pressure waves coming out in the bell like a trampoline. So the effective reflective surface sits back a couple of inches from the bell.

    Water is relatively incompressible and presents a much higher inertia than air. So like concrete, it doesn't 'cushion' the pressure waves coming out of the bell. So the effective reflective surface is near the plane of the bell rim. So the trumpet is effectively a couple of inches shorter. So it sounds a semitone or so higher.

    My bet.
     
    ConnDirectorFan likes this.
  8. Dean_0

    Dean_0 Piano User

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    Re: Submit the best reason for this to happen and win a Free Trumpet Ensemble Arrange

    NO -NO -NO ,you guy's are all wrong ,It is well known in (WELL INFORMED) trumpet circles that early on in the design of the trumpet ,all were played under water ,but after many drownings ,no acceptable players could be found to test the tuning on said trumpets ,so the designers went back to plan B and built trumpet's from then on to be played in the open air ,as close as possible to the viola players ! :roll:

    Dean_0
     
  9. Branson

    Branson Piano User

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    Re: Submit the best reason for this to happen and win a Free Trumpet Ensemble Arrange

    You are correct!

    Stop in to trumpetensemblemusic.com

    select an arrangement and send your request to

    [email protected]

    Great work and stay safe.

    BC
     
  10. Branson

    Branson Piano User

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    Re: Submit the best reason for this to happen and win a Free Trumpet Ensemble Arrange

    That was to ConndirectorFan only
     

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