Super Olds Recording Trumpet info???

Discussion in 'Vintage Trumpets / Cornets' started by AllThingsFufkin, May 28, 2008.

  1. AllThingsFufkin

    AllThingsFufkin New Friend

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    May 28, 2008
    I have a Super Olds Recording trumpet in beautiful condition and in perfect working order. Serial number is 24xxx and reads Los Angeles, CA on the bell. Anyone have any idea what something like this has been going for on eBay? Would really appreciate the help!

    Bradd
     
  2. screamingmorris

    screamingmorris Mezzo Forte User

    808
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    Apr 4, 2007
    Prices on eBay fluctuate on everything with no apparent reason behind it.
    So what one trumpet will sell for one week is not what an identical trumpet will sell for the next week.

    But here is an Olds Super Recording with your serial number range that had bidding get up to almost $2,000 this week:
    Olds Super Recording Trumpet - eBay (item 190223096183 end time May-24-08 12:04:47 PDT)

    This is some type of Recording with a starting price of $2,000 that has not received a bid yet:
    OLDS RECORDING TRUMPET LOS ANGELES 1951-52 WOW LOOK NR! - eBay (item 220239213312 end time Jun-01-08 20:39:12 PDT)

    Here is someone who only asked $900 for some type of Recording and someone immediately bought it with a Buy It Now:
    Olds Recording Professional Trumpet VERY NICE! WOW! - eBay (item 280228667062 end time May-20-08 00:00:53 PDT)

    Then there is some type of Recording that sold for less than $900 because it was in bad shape:
    Vintage Olds Recording Trumpet F E Olds & Sons W/ Case - eBay (item 300222879078 end time May-14-08 18:15:00 PDT)

    NOTE:
    Whenever I tell an eBay seller, "A trumpet almost exactly like yours sold for $400 last week", almost every time the seller will put a starting bid of $400 on the trumpet and the trumpet will often get no bids.
    Because bidders like to start low and voluntarily work their way up rather than have the seller dictate that they must start at a high bid.
    So if you have a trumpet that you think is worth $1,700, bidders generally like to see a starting price of $1,000 or whatever and then voluntarily work their way up to higher bids.
    There is a great demand for Olds Recording trumpets, so I don't think you will have any trouble attracting several bidders who will compete against each other to raise the bidding to a nice high figure.

    - Morris
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2008
  3. ozboy

    ozboy Mezzo Forte User

    764
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    Jan 17, 2007
    Australia
    Very interesting.
     
  4. Brass crusader

    Brass crusader Mezzo Piano User

    Ok,
    The Recording and Super Recording are two completely different horns. Super Recordings were the top of the line Los Angeles horn until the Mendez was introduced, in I believe '52.
    You can tell the difference in the two models

    Recording
    -Made from late Los Angeles period up through late Fullerton
    -Generally has a Copper appeance to the bell and leadpipe
    -Third valve trigger
    -no tone ring
    -Engraving only reads "Recording"
    -Balanced action, offset middle valve

    Super Recording
    -Made only in L.A
    -All-lacquer finish w/ siver and gold highlights
    -no third valve trigger, just a throw ring
    -Has tone ring(these tone rings are identical to the Supers, but the bell engraving is present on Super Recordings)
    -Has engraving reading "Super Recording", that comes together vertically
    -Balanced action, offset valve

    All in all,
    A horn w/ a tone ring and engraving is a Super Recording. A horn w/ a balanced action and trigger is a straight Recording.
    A horn w/ a tone ring and no engraving is a Super, and a Rose brass bell w/ elaborate engraving is a Recording.

    I've seen a flurry of action in the ebay market for Super Recordings in the last few months. Therefore, I've seen the value fluctuate a hell of a lot.
    Several months ago, a 1946 Super Recording sold for $5,100!!! More that some Monettes!(Although i'd rather spend my money on another Super Recording than a Monette:-)) Now, however they tend to only be going for around $2,000. It's kinda sad, actually.


    I hope this post helps more than it confuses.

    Good luck
     
  5. screamingmorris

    screamingmorris Mezzo Forte User

    808
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    Apr 4, 2007
    In eBay photos the lighting and color are often so "off" that I have trouble seeing the copper color in the Recording bell.

    For example, I know that this bell is supposed to be the copper-looking one, but I just cannot see it:
    OLDS RECORDING TRUMPET LOS ANGELES 1951-52 WOW LOOK NR! - eBay (item 220239213312 end time Jun-01-08 20:39:12 PDT)
    The bell looks darker than the valve casing (the valve casing is almost white due to the bad lighting), but the bell doesn't look copper-ish in that photo.

    But I never have trouble seeing the copper color in the pure-copper Conn bells.

    Is the Recording bell still brass but with a slightly higher copper content in it?

    - Morris
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2008
  6. Brass crusader

    Brass crusader Mezzo Piano User

    Morris,
    I erred in saying that they were pure copper. The bells are in fact "Rey-o-loy", I believe, which would be like rose brass. It is possible that the horn that you are referring to could indeed be either this or straight lacquer, as it's an early horn.


    thanks
     
  7. screamingmorris

    screamingmorris Mezzo Forte User

    808
    17
    Apr 4, 2007
    Olds Central shows some trumpets and cornets (I think it was the Olds Specials that came out in the early 1960's at the same time as the Holton Super Collegiates and to compete with the tri-color Super Collegiates) that have a short bell flare made with that copper-ish alloy.
    Although the Rey-o-loy section is obvious in those Olds Central illustrations, eBay photos are often so bad that I cannot see the Rey-o-loy section even though I know it is there.
    Those tri-color Specials were nice-looking instruments, but I'd rather have a nickel-plated .468-bore late-1960's Studio cornet.

    - Morris, whose present "collection" is 1 Conn cornet :-)
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2008
  8. Brass crusader

    Brass crusader Mezzo Piano User

    Morris,
    Thanks for the compliment about my collection... I love every horn in it! They each are played every day.
    The Special cornet is a large-bored horn. It's really hard to crack a note with that bell and bore combo. That's my more legit cornet, I use the Ambassador for jazz.
    I played a great Strad 184 Shepherds crook cornet, and loved everything about it.
    I think that the contrast in colors between the nickel and Rey-o-loy really is sharp.
    The studios are great horns, from what I've heard.
    I'll let you know if I ever see one on ebay, or have anything I might want to move.

    cheers
     
  9. screamingmorris

    screamingmorris Mezzo Forte User

    808
    17
    Apr 4, 2007
    I deleted my compliment not realizing that you had already seen it because I didn't know if my $$$ estimate for your collection was anywhere near the ballpark.
    No matter how much $$$ your collection is worth, it is *nice*.

    I wish I had just one hour to play every instrument in your collection, which would only give me about 3 minutes per instrument? (is there an emoticon for drooling?)

    Do all of the Olds Ambassador and Special and Studio cornets from the 1960's have a .468 bore?
    I asked Olds Central a few months ago and they said that they think so but that they weren't sure.
    Any idea of how the 1960's Ambassador and Special and Studio would sound different from each other?
    I would hope that a late-60's nickel-plated Studio cornet would have a fairly dark tone.
    I have dreamt of owning one for a long time, but they just cost too darn much $$$ on the rare occasion that one comes up for sale, beyond my absolute $300 limit.
    I cannot justify spending more than that just so that I can play an amateurish "Danny Boy" ad nauseam in my bedroom (no matter how much I *love* to do it).

    - Morris
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2008
  10. Brass crusader

    Brass crusader Mezzo Piano User

    Morris,
    I got fantastic deals on most of my vintage horns. I'd have to double check what they're all insured for.
    They are truly a lot of fun to play. I use the Xeno as my all-around classical and lead horn, and then switch to my Special trumpet for section and combo jazz stuff. The Special was a "closet queen", it's got the original lacquer about 99.9% present. It's also a true lightweight, with the one-piece braces and leadpipe.
    I'm not sure of the bore on my Ambassador, and I don't know about the bore on the '60's Ambassadors.
    The Special cornet is a great horn. Cosmetically it's got some wear, but it plays quite nicely. I don't know if I'm interested in selling it right now, but perhaps in the future.

    Have fun playing:-)
     

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