T357 Flügel vs. ZKF1525 Flügel

Discussion in 'Horns' started by knf jazz cat, Dec 17, 2003.

  1. knf jazz cat

    knf jazz cat New Friend

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    Dec 16, 2003
    I'm looking to get a new flügel cause the one I have is a piece of . I was checking out the Leblanc Arturo Signature and the Kanstul ZKF1525. I know that the Leblanc is a copy of the Kanstul, and that it's also a good $300-400 cheaper than the Kanstul. I've played the Leblanc at Samash, and it sounded pretty damn good. Anyway, my question is, How is the Leblanc horn in terms of quality/workmanship and sound quality?? Should I get the Leblanc or save up for a little longer and buy the Kanstul??
     
  2. camelbrass

    camelbrass Mezzo Forte User

    841
    4
    Nov 5, 2003
    Dubai, UAE
    Hi,

    I haven't played the LeBlanc but I play the Kanstul and it's pretty damn good as well. I suspect the Kanstul would hold its second hand value better.

    Regards

    Trevor
     
  3. trickg

    trickg Utimate User

    6,700
    3,450
    Oct 26, 2003
    Baltimore/DC
    I would go for the Kanstul for the reason that I currently own a Custom Class Kanstul flugel with a copper bell. It's a fine horn all on it's own and it's not even considered tops among the Kanstul flugels. I've also heard that Leblanc has some quality control issues with the Arturo flugle although I also heard that if you get a decent one, they play really nice.
     
  4. JACKKANSTUL

    JACKKANSTUL Pianissimo User

    While a company my try to copy a RESONATING TUBE it is not that easy. That's because it is tapered and all bent up so the slightest differences make a great deal of difference. This is where the Artist/Craftsman comes in. Because he is a great Artist and has paid his dues(50 years under and for the best in the business) he knows things others do not. That is why his instruments RESONATE the way they do. You really can't copy that. You have to know how to do it. If you compare them side by side you will hear and feel the difference. That's why so many great players play on them. If you want to put it to the test give me a call and I'll send one out for a "free trial". Hearing and feeling it for yourself is believing.

    To The Flugelhorn-The One! ZKF 1525

    Jack Kanstul
     
  5. trickg

    trickg Utimate User

    6,700
    3,450
    Oct 26, 2003
    Baltimore/DC
    Jack,

    On the surface, there doesn't appear to be much difference in the Custom Class Flugel and the Signature. I know that my CCF 925 has a very nice sound and is pretty easy to play. So, what is the big difference? I know that the Signature has a larger, heavier bell, but they appear to be made on the same body. Should I have invested a few hundred more dollars and gotten the Signature instead? I was really on the fence and I decided to save myself a few bucks with the Custom Class because for the most part, it's only a double instrument for me. On a rock band gig, I might use it for 2 or 3 tunes, same with the big band. In fact, in the rock band, there have been a couple of gigs where the flugel went back in the case at the end of the night without being played at all.

    I think that the Custom Class flugel is under rated. I actually chose it over the two different Chicago models that I played, one is silver and one lacquer. I play tested a bunch of different flugels,among them the highly rated Yamaha Bobby Shew flugel, and for me, the Custom Class seemed to be the biggest bang for the buck. In my mind it was the best playing flugel for the dollar, playing right alongside the Yamaha Shew. There was so little difference in the sound they produced and the Kanstul cost less. So what's the story on the CCF 925?

    Also, you keep mentioning the "RESONATING TUBE". Are you refering to the leadpipe, or the whole horn in general?
     
  6. Kanstulbrass

    Kanstulbrass Pianissimo User

    Age:
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    Nov 10, 2003
    Anaheim, CA
    All of the Kanstul Flugel horns have something to offer, and each player has his preference. Some great players come through our showroom, looking to try our Signature flugel. I have seen them pass it over however, in favor of the Custom Class or even the Chicago flugel (my favorite, btw)

    Among the many artists who play on the ZKF 1525 Signature flugel: Greg Adams (founder, Tower of Power) and Benny Cowan (Parliament/Funkadelic)

    Some terrific players I know play on the CCF 925 Custom Class Flugel. We make ours with the "straight" taper mouthpipe. Our other models are made for the "Bach" taper. All of our flugels are available with copper bell, or an alternate-taper mouthpipe (French or Bach) As well, the Custom Class flugel comes with a case and Kanstul mouthpiece, an excellent value!

    A VERY BIG NAME came in one day and liked the CHI 1025 Chicago Flugel so much that he convinced Zig to sell it to him on the spot, and to gold-plate it that afternoon. This highly influential player plays horns with HIS NAME on it, but he preferred our flugel.

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    As to the so-called "resonating tube", this is something that Zig understands better than anyone. Try this: play one of those plastic trumpets that people blow at parades. Sounds kind of dead and poor, doesn't it? Now get a straight brass coach horn. Other than the fact that it may be manufactured from high quality materials, and sounds more trumpet-like, it's still dead sounding even though the bell is free and unbraced. Now get a well-designed Bb trumpet (one of Kanstul's perhaps...). It resonates in a way that the straight horns do not, yet it is wrapped and braced. This resonance amplifies the overtones, giving the instrument a sonic depth not found in toys or poorly designed horns.
     

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