Talk to me about Schagerl...

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by chapmand, Sep 16, 2013.

  1. barliman2001

    barliman2001 Fortissimo User

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  2. barliman2001

    barliman2001 Fortissimo User

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    Don't be too quick. Votruba of Vienna do a very similar thing, probably for much less...
     
  3. Peter McNeill

    Peter McNeill Utimate User

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    Sorry for the long delay Phil, I have been a little busy and forgot to reply. The Schagerl Killer Queen Flugel, and Schlub Dingo are both rotaries, and are played normally. The response is a little different, but takes only a short time to adjust. The valves are just sooo fast. I do not know about intonation issues, as these are both pretty well in tune for the playing I do with them. The bent bell is just to get the rotating valves to fit and work as a normal horn. Cheers
     
  4. Sethoflagos

    Sethoflagos Utimate User

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    Thanks, Elmar, though I'm still a little confused by the terminology. My understanding (quite possibly wrong) of "rotary valve" is that the plug rotates about the axis of the casing, irrespective of whether the instrument is held vertically or horizontally; whereas a "perinet valve" moves up and down the axis of the casing.

    I'm just having difficult picturing how a hybrid ("perinet-type rotary") would work - some sort of spiral movement? :?: :dontknow:
     
  5. bumblebee

    bumblebee Fortissimo User

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    The rotary valves are essentially the same, but mounted at a right-angle to those in a regular rotary trumpet. The main mechanical difference is the actuator linkage pushes down (in the same direction your finger does) rather than horizontally (at a right angle to your finger's direction). The ganschhorn style uses a direct force translated once into a circular motion, the traditional style uses a direct force to rotate a shaft which in turn provides a force which is translated into a circular motion. Because the metal links are short and stiff and there should be no play in the shaft, there should be next to no loss in either case of force to move the valves.

    The term "perinet-type rotary" is used I believe to indicate how the trumpet is held/oriented.

    --bumblebee
     
  6. hup_d_dup

    hup_d_dup Piano User

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    Another approach. Note the use of valve stem buttons rather than rotary style paddles.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Hup
     
  7. bumblebee

    bumblebee Fortissimo User

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    That lower picture should make clearer what I mangled in words...

    --bumblebee
     
  8. Sethoflagos

    Sethoflagos Utimate User

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    Fog has lifted. Many thanks
     
  9. barliman2001

    barliman2001 Fortissimo User

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    Oc course, Seth, the terminology "perinet-type rotary" is flawed. What is meant is an upright rotary ("looking like a perinet-style trumpet from afar"). Your understanding of a rotary valve is quite correct. Only, in the original Arno Windisch design and its new reappearances (which interestingly enough surfaced just after the expiry of the original Windisch patent...), the actual finger pads are differently linked to the valves to produce an upright trumpet and the look of a conventional perinet hooter. Problem with all these hooters - they are even more taxing to hold than a classical rotary. A friend of mine who had one of the first Ganschhorns to hit the market was always really pleased with the playing and the sound, but only last week sold the Ganschhorn for a Strad 72 because hsi fingers were always so sore from holding the Ganschhorn... (he does have XXL paws).
     
  10. Sethoflagos

    Sethoflagos Utimate User

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    Cheers,

    The valve gear in the pictures above took me straight back to memories of adjusting tappet clearances on an old Ford push-rod crossflow.
     
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