Teeth, Jaws and Mouthpieces...

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by BernArt, Jan 20, 2015.

  1. BernArt

    BernArt Pianissimo User

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    Hello

    I have been playing for eight years and of course I need to keep myself practicing everyday and keeping mind and ears always open and fully sensitive in order to learn improve and find the "golden and perfect sound" I expect one day to bring out of my trumpet, as most student trumpeters would expect. But... What happens when the shape of your face, your jaws and low level teeth do not allow you to play and hold the trumpet in a 90 degrees angle with your body? I mean, playing with the bell of the trumpet right in front your mouth... So, the angle between my trumpet and my body is something a bit closer to the angle an oboe player gets for example. My upper teeth and my lower teeth do not allow the mouthpiece and the trumpet to be holded in a straight and 90 degrees angle with my body, no matter register, key, trumpet shape ( same issue happens while playing the Bb cornet and the flugelhorn but this issue is more evident when I play trumpet. It is even more obvious when playing a long herald trumpet . Does it make any sense? Should I try to totally change my embouchure? I don't think I have major problems with my current trumpet position but I think that maybe I loose projection for not being able to up enough my trumpet bell. I will appreciate any comment about it. Thank you in advance.
    BernArt
     
  2. Cornyandy

    Cornyandy Fortissimo User

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    Flippantly I could suggest Dizzy bell. You have been playing 8 years and it seems that you are still looking for your golden sound as you call it. It could have something to do with an extreme embouchure (or of course it might not) If you are worried it might be a time to have a one off lesson with a teacher just to check you are covering the bases properly. Projection is obviously going to be affected by the angle of the bell but unless it is right into the ground then I would be not too worried, unless you know that you are not projecting and perhaps in a group you are being told that you are not. Resonance and having the bases of good breathing and a sound technique are more important than the direction of the bell in whether the trumpet is resonating well enough to project. There is another thread on her about "projection trumpets" it might help you to read a few of the posts there

    Hope that somewhat wandering post help

    A
     
  3. Sethoflagos

    Sethoflagos Utimate User

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    This is a whole package issue, BernArt. By which, I mean you need the one-to-one personal guidance of a professional tutor who can look at the whole package (you!) and study what is going on from toes to finger tips.

    Off the top of my head I've known players play in this position though

    1. A wish to emulate Miles Davis.
    2. Abnormal curvature of the spine.
    3. Shyness.

    And there must be dozens more possible root causes, each requiring a different approach to finding a solution (including 'don't change anything' in some instances).

    You seem to be suggesting that you play this way because of irregular teeth and an overbite. I've irregular teeth and an overbite. In a fit of foolhardiness (and for different reasons) I moved my lower jaw forward a couple of millimetres, and now I have to watch that I don't tilt my trumpet above the horizontal. You are younger than me and not so reckless by nature. Discuss this with an experienced tutor.
     
  4. trickg

    trickg Utimate User

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    I don't play at a 90 degree angle. Not even remotely. I play off center to the left and at a bit of a downward angle because that's what my teeth dictate. If I were you, I wouldn't worry about what it looks like, or what you might perceive to be "correct" from a face/horn angle kind of thing, and instead, just work on playing and sounding good.
     
  5. Cornyandy

    Cornyandy Fortissimo User

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    I'm with Patrick, with that little caveat that it isn't hampering anything, if it isn't then I wouldn't worry if it is it might need a shift. My only problem is finding out. It might well not be but 8 years without finding a "golden sound" seems a long time to me. I owuld try to find someone that could just check it for you but is open to any idiosyncrasies you might have
     
  6. veery715

    veery715 Utimate User

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    There's also the option of a bent mouthpiece, a common way to get the bell up some. Look at youtubes of famous players and you will find some whose bell points at the floor. It is possible to achieve a good sound and projection and still have the bell down.
     
  7. FireandAir

    FireandAir Pianissimo User

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    I'm a newcomer to trumpet (only been puffing and blowing for a few months, no teacher currently), and I also have a pretty serious overjet. Except for the front incisors, all of my other teeth are in perfect alignment, but those two are a good half-centimeter ahead of the others, making a classic embouchure an impossibility for me. I've probably let this bother me more than I should, but I know it will ultimately impact what I'm trying to do. Part of why I don't want a teacher at this point is that I want to be in your shoes: able to play in some manner despite my jacked up teeth. I don't want to go in to a teacher and get back what amounts to, "Yikes, I don't even know if you can play, but I guess we'll try." I'd rather go in with some ability, even shady ability to get a basic tune out of the thing, so that the teacher's attitude will be more like, "Okay, I can tell that a solution exists, and now we just have to go find it."

    People have mentioned bent mouthpieces to me before, which allow a player to play "down" and still have the bell facing out, but beyond that all I can say is that I hope to be in your shoes someday.
     
  8. BernArt

    BernArt Pianissimo User

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    Irregular teeth and overbite, as Seth mentioned above, is the main issue, in my case, that do not allow me to hold my trumpet (and then, my mouthpiece) in a horizontal posture and I think all this affect projection. Could we say that the angle we get between trumpet and body could really depend on shape of face, teeth and jaws? I appreciate your comments and suggestions about it as many other trumpet players with irregular teeth and overbite issues reading here will probably do. Thank you!
    BernArt
     
  9. Cornyandy

    Cornyandy Fortissimo User

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    I think you would be surprised at how little direction actually affects projection, unless you are playing perpendicular to the floor. I play about 20 degrees or so down and my projection is fine. I am sorry if I confused you talking about you finding your sound. My concern was that you might have had an "extreme embouchure" ie really bad in terms of your set up that might be hampering you as you search for what you are calling a golden sound. I am not too concerned about the direction of the bell, the whole trumpet and body are the resonant system and I don't think direction is the be all and end all.
     
  10. barliman2001

    barliman2001 Fortissimo User

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    I've known a few trumpet players with overbite, amongst them a lead trumpet player for Hugo Strasser and James Last. Usually, they solve the problem by having a mouthpiece stem bent in the desired direction., or have the leadpipe bent accordingly. Votruba of Vienna have one such trumpet in stock at this very moment - a Holton LT-302 MF phpThumb_cache_votruba-musik.at_src7f7d2e837a52d1f7102937e8356ba6bd_para7439531c9932c76a604047d.jpeg
    Gebrauchte Blasinstrumente – Trompeten und Flügelhörner in Wien
     

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