Ten Thousand Hours.

Discussion in 'TM Lounge' started by Eeviac, Feb 2, 2008.

  1. Eeviac

    Eeviac Piano User

    This is a branch-off of the thread about the little kid trumpet player ..... I'd mentioned I'd seen it said that it takes 10,000 hours to become a virtuoso, here's a link about that....

    10,000 Hours (Marksonland)

    Now I had become rather good at something and was still headed up when I left it. I'd put in about 5 years, although not the full 10,000 hours since I hardly ever put in 8 hours a day, more like 5 or 6 and at first, much much less than that. It takes a while to get in condition to train that much! Oh and I started at age 30.

    Anyway I think the general idea is that mostly it's little kids who have the time to put in that 10,000 hours, so it's commonly thought that you have to start out very young. However I think the thinking on this is that if you're an adult with a similar situation of free time, lack of distractions, etc. that you can do this too. Since adults hardly ever have this situation going for them, it hardly ever happens.

    I have heard of some older beginners at guitar, various musical instruments, etc getting pretty good though. Even finding out they're quite talented and not realizing they have that talent, and kind of going with it.

    So I guess this is about that general subject.
  2. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

    Jun 18, 2006
    To be a great trumpet player, you need $10,000 in instruments and mouthpieces.
    What makes a person good is the opportunities available. The more chances you have to play with fine musicians and ensembles, the better you will get. That is why a DIY approach is always limited (Unless you are Glenn Gould). 10,000 ensembles would be a real trumpet builder!
  3. Toobz

    Toobz Mezzo Piano User

    Feb 5, 2007
    One million non-productive hours won't help anyone. I don't buy into any preconceived notions on what it takes in terms of hours and minutes. As Rowuk mentioned, experience, equipment, attitude all have a bearing on one's development. Setting goals are needed to accomplish anything. But constant evaluation is also needed to keep one's eye on the target. What's good for one person, may not be for another. No two snowflakes are alike.
  4. Eeviac

    Eeviac Piano User

    Rowuk I agree. You have to get exposure to music early on, hopefully get handed a trumpet at age 8 like Haken Hardenburger did and have the kind of situation where you can take lessons like he did. Then you have to get out there and play, or in a sport get into competitions.

    In what I was doing, I was probably in the best part of the country, the level of skill is the highest in the US and there were lots of competitions. Nationals was held there (they've since changed to hold it half of the time there, and half of the time out East). I found myself jobless, with no pressure to get another job or live in a cardboard box right away due to Unemployment Insurance, discovered I was talented at this, which I'd never suspected, and was in a very fertile environment. It all came together. Others who came up fast had similar sets of fortunate conditions. International competitors had been put into "talent identification" type sports programs with the same sets of circumstances - lots of time, lots of competitions, basic survival needs taken care of.

    I wish I'd put the time/effort into learning an instrument, any instrument, even the accordion would have been time better spent. The harmonica, anything. Because what I did isn't that entertaining, so it has to get sheltered, as a "sport" and not even one people will generally pay to see, so it's one of those hothouse flowers that only gets attention every 4 years, and hardly any even at that time. And unlike music, you certainly can't meet cool people doing it to any great extent. Or make a living any time by doing it on the sidewalk with the hat out.

    But music is different. It's probably the only thing that justifies our existence on this earth. It's completely, utterly, useless. So unlike most everything else we do, like plundering the earth or other peoples, it can actually be called harmless and good.

    So, maybe I should look at moving to where there are a lot of bands or open mics, and buskers and so on, to be in the right kind of stimulating environment? Maybe it's something to think about, for any of us. I don't have a lot of hopes for the US economy and it does not have a lot of hopes for me, maybe I should look at being a bum in New Orleans or San Francisco, since I'm going to be a bum somewhere anyway. Those are very fertile areas for musicians.
  5. Jude

    Jude Piano User

    Dec 2, 2007
    YouTube has some kind of deal that pays a fraction of their ad income to 'tubers whose videos get clicked - you could do some outdoors (thus avoiding the bed-making problem) with you playing and the animals - well, responding. Or not. A new concept in U2b videos: non-bedroom playing. Busk from home.

    (I'm concerned about what's going to happen to the other members of the establishment if you decide to move to be a bum in SF.)
  6. Eeviac

    Eeviac Piano User

    YouTube pays? I've actually wanted to put all kinds of odd stuff on there, like how an oscilloscope works, how to identify connectors, how to solder some of them, etc. Just for fun.

    Um, how would my being a bum (or at least street-player) in San Francisco affect "the establishment"? I doubt it would have any impact on Gavin Newsome's career. It won't put Hillary in instead of Obama (actually I think we're going to get stuck with mcCain) and as for other city functionaries, I doubt there'd be any difference. I'd think they hang around the financial district, and I favor Fisherman's Wharf. I know people think the Wharf is touristy but I think it's cool.

    Frankly, I'd want to be slam-dunk sure I can make enough $$ to rent a room before I'd make the long trek back there.
  7. Jude

    Jude Piano User

    Dec 2, 2007
    Whoops - by "the establishment" I meant the dogs, horses, donkey, rooster, etc.! Who's going to take care of them if you're out busking in SF?

    Those [humans] you specified will all do very nicely, no matter what happens.
  8. Toobz

    Toobz Mezzo Piano User

    Feb 5, 2007
    San Francisco is a pretty nice town. I used to live in Lake Tahoe, and the one place that drew me reguarly away from the Lake was San Francisco. My wife and I often spent time in and around Fisherman's wharf. Sure, it's touristy, but it does have it's own charm. Great town for art, music and food.
  9. Vulgano Brother

    Vulgano Brother Moderator Staff Member

    Mar 23, 2006
    Parts Unknown
    10000 seems about right--but it is spent doing something we love. Compare this to:

    Average number of hours per week spent watching television

    December 27, 2005

    Thailand 22.4

    Philippines 21.0

    Egypt 20.9

    Turkey 20.2

    Indonesia 19.7

    United States 19.0

    Taiwan 18.9

    Brazil 18.4

    United Kingdom 18.0

    Japan 17.9

    Saudi Arabia 17.7

    France 17.3

    Hong Kong 16.7

    Czech Republic 16.2

    Poland 15.9

    Spain 15.9

    Average number of hours per week spent reading
    India 10.7

    Thailand 9.4

    China 8.0

    Philippines 7.6

    Egypt 7.5

    Czech Republic 7.4

    Russia 7.1

    France 6.9

    Sweden 6.9

    Hungary 6.8

    Saudi Arabia 6.8

    Hong Kong 6.7

    Poland 6.5

    Venezuela 6.4

    Australia 6.3

    South Africa 6.3

    Average number of hours per week spent listening to radio
    Argentina 20.8

    Brazil 17.2

    South Africa 15.0

    Czech Republic 13.3

    Thailand 13.3

    Turkey 13.3

    Poland 12.5

    Hungary 12.1

    Germany 11.5

    Australia 11.3

    Mexico 11.1

    Sweden 10.9

    United Kingdom 10.5

    United States10.2

    Spain 9.9

    Philippines 9.5

    SOURCE: The Economist World in Figures
  10. Eeviac

    Eeviac Piano User

    Jude - They're not OUR animals, we're not dumb enough to keep all those pets, although I do kinda want a few chickens sometime. Nope all these horses etc are just expensive pets, not one of 'em's a working animal.

    I'm not sure how some of 'em would react to my playing, that could be interesting. Most horses seem to like me OK, but I'm not sure what they'll make of a trumpet.

    I do want to sign up for YouTube, just to put stuff up, and to be able to comment on stuff I watch. I'm not sure how they pay, if it's through some horrible thing like PayPal then ... NoThanks. I'd rather busk in front of the Alco.

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