Terminal case of red rot

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by trumpetsplus, Sep 9, 2014.

  1. Buck with a Bach

    Buck with a Bach Fortissimo User

    Dec 29, 2009
    Canton, Ohio
    Really bad place to have it happen. Student horn=terminal:-(
  2. Jolter

    Jolter Piano User

    Apr 1, 2009
    So, it sounds like this could have been avoided simply by emptying the instrument of moisture before putting it in the case, every time. Pulling the tuning slide and turning it over, basically. Is it that simple?
  3. Sethoflagos

    Sethoflagos Utimate User

    Aug 7, 2013
    Lagos, Nigeria
    The condensate that forms particularly from warm breath in a cold horn, is pretty pure water. This quickly picks up CO2 from your breath and turns quite acidic. It may only be a thin film that does the damage over the years and this won't 'pour out'.

    Tap water is effectively a weak solution of calcium bicarbonate which can neutralise the acid. Better to rinse with that after playing, then blow through with a hair dryer.
  4. Jolter

    Jolter Piano User

    Apr 1, 2009
    Oh, should I start bringing a hairdryer to rehearsals, then? =)

    Jokes aside, most players I know do nothing except empty through the spit valves before "casing" the horn. Still I've never seen red rot in person. Does it depend on climate, or some other environmental circumstance?
  5. Sethoflagos

    Sethoflagos Utimate User

    Aug 7, 2013
    Lagos, Nigeria
    Lagos is year-round hot and humid, which generally accelerates most corrosion reactions, and I've yet to see it with any of mine. The Yamaha which has been with me 10 years out here has a relatively high copper leadpipe so I wouldn't expect to see red rot on that anyway.

    Looking at Ivan's example where rot is concentrated on joints and knuckles, I'm wondering whether high residual stresses post-brazing didn't contribute. Couple this with eg. bad breath (hydrogen sulphide) and that opens the door to a bunch of stress corrosion mechanisms that could let the dreaded rot in.

    Edit: I really am old enough to know I should check my facts before I post BS off the top of my head. The bad boy for stress corrosion cracking of brasses is of course ammonia, which can reduce the fracture toughness of unannealed brass by a factor of 200+. So never lay a trumpet down near the kitty litter tray :-)
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2014
  6. tobylou8

    tobylou8 Utimate User

    Dec 22, 2008
    I flush with the shower head removed from the hose and said hose stuck down the bell. BE SURE ALL SLIDES ARE SECURED TO THE HORN OR YOU'LL HEAR THIS POPPING SOUND FOLLOWED BY THE SOUND OF METAL ON TILE!!!! My regular players are always clean (unlike the Borg I cleaned for a friend last week, GROSS!!!).
  7. jimc

    jimc Mezzo Piano User

    May 21, 2009
    Spokane, WA USA
    Pffft! Student horn = JB Weld! :-)
  8. ConnDirectorFan

    ConnDirectorFan Fortissimo User

    Nov 5, 2010
    United States
    Holton 602 type, maybe with Yamaha valves owing to the casing shape and caps [many of the 602s with Yamaha parts had Japan on the second valve, but many did not]
  9. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

    Jun 18, 2006
    I hope that they didn't pay $150 on eBay for it...............

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