Testing A Possible New Way To Tune A Trumpet

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by Dr.Mark, Jul 3, 2013.

  1. Dr.Mark

    Dr.Mark Mezzo Forte User

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    I would like TM to participate in a simple test. If you can, please participate. Here goes:
    The idea suggests that tuning a trumpet to itself involves matching the pitch of two distinct areas of the trumpet. The left side containing the bell which can produce a resonant pitch and, the right side which contains most of the piping which can also produce a pitch. A byproduct of the idea, if found to have support, is the removal of the person having to play a tuning note. Many will want to ask questions, boo hoo the idea or say the math doesn’t support it or the physics of sound and the trumpet just doesn’t work that way. So far I’ve had people with doctorates in mechanical engineering and Ph.D’s in acoustics to argue pro and con about this idea. I think maybe it’s best to just throw it out there and try it and see. If the trumpet sounds and plays better after using this method of tuning then I’d say that it seems to have merit. Preliminary results are very promising but the sample is small. If possible, please try this new way of tuning and see if your trumpet plays and sounds better.
    Thanks for testing and continuing to test different trumpets.
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    FIRST, TAKE THE TUNING SLIDE OUT AND REINSERT THE TOP PORTION OF THE TUNING SLIDE BACK IN THE TRUMPET. THE BOTTOM PART OF THE TUNING SLIDE WILL BE POINTED BACK TOWARDS YOU AND NOT TOUCHING THE BELL.
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    THE TWO PITCHES MATCH:
    A. Ping the bell rim of your trumpet so you can hear the tone given off.
    B. Next, blow a steady stream of air into the mouthpiece and adjust the pitch of the air by holding the bottom part of the tuning slide and moving it back and forth like a trombone slide. The objective is to match the pitch of the air to the tone that was given off by the bell rim. No buzzing!! just a steady calm stream of air.
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    THE TUNING SLIDE
    A.While moving the tuning slide, find the distance where the pitch of the air matches the pitch of the bell rim.
    B. Divide that distance in half and mark it with a small dot using a with a magic marker.
    C. The tuning slide is then reinserted into the trumpet in a normal manner but only up to the dot .
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    OUTCOME
    A.The half way point is where the trumpet is normally in tune (taking temperature into account).
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    The List of Trumpets That Had Positive Results:
    1.King 600
    2.King 2055T Silver Flair (post -UMI)
    3.Kanstul 1600WB
    4.Getzen Eterna Doc Model (30-40 yrs. old)
    5.Holton MF Horn (30 to 40 yrs. old)
    6.Olds Ambassador 1965
    7.Olds Mendez
    8.Shires Destino III with a Monette B2S3 classic mouthpiece
    9.Martin Committee Med. Bore 1953
    10.Martin Committee Large bore (1940's)
    11.King Silver Flair 1055 pre-UMI
    12.Yamaha 4xxx and 6xxx
    13.Andreas Eastman
    14.Rembrandt
    15.Olds Super
    16.Olds Studio
    17.Holton ST 307 MF Horn
    18.Bach Strad 37 ML
    19.Bach Strad 43
    20.Holton T602R
    21.Olds Recording (1953)
    22.Olds Recordings (1967)
    23.Martin Committee medium bore (1946)
    24.Kanstul 1526 Flugelhorn

    25.Bach Strad 37
    26.Bach Strad 37

    Please encourage others to try the test and if you had positive results, please let us know.
    Thanks again
    Dr.Mark
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2013
  2. kingtrumpet

    kingtrumpet Utimate User

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    I will see if I can first find a violin bow ---- don't know of any string player at the moment -- except those guitar people ---- a guy in my band plays cello of some string instrument for an orchestra (like I paid any attention to what instrument when he was telling me last year) --
     
  3. stumac

    stumac Fortissimo User

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    An interesting concept Mark, I will try it out on saturday morning at orchestra rehearsal when I will have axcess to a violin bow. If nothing other to show the sum of the parts equals the whole.

    I will try this on two of my Selmers, 1947 Grand Prix and 1952 Balanced, essentially the same horn except the valve block is in a different location. Would not work on my Eclipse with the tuning slide in the bell bow.

    Regards, Stuart.
     
  4. tjcombo

    tjcombo Mezzo Forte User

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    OK, I'll bite and dust off the violin case that's stashed away. I'm highly skeptical and checked to see if the post was dated to April 1st. My concerns about this are around the relevance of resonance of the metal chunks - the horn which is essentially fixed, and the resonance of the air column. Not saying there is not a whole heap of interplay between the two, but if the metal bits were to have significant resonance(s) that came into effect whilst playing, I'd expect the sound to vary as notes are played on and away from that pitch.
    Also wondering what my band director would say if I told him I didn't want move my tuning slide 'coz my trumpet was tuned to its cosmic resonance :-) .
    As a fan of vintage horns however, I'll admit that there's a whole heap of magic/science in our beautiful instruments that we don't fully understand and look forward to taking part in the experiment.

    tj
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2013
  5. tjcombo

    tjcombo Mezzo Forte User

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    Hi Stuart,

    If it turns out that there is some substance to balancing resonances between the two sides of a trumpet, we might see a whole lot more horns with tunable bells??

    tj
     
  6. gmonady

    gmonady Utimate User

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    I tried this on my '46 Martin Committee and my '65 Olds Ambassador... I actually got the Ambassador to tune.

    Here are my results (a freind let me bow his Olds Mendez as well):
    Martin Committee - 23/32" with tuning slide reconnected
    Olds Ambassador - 1/8" with tuning slide reconnected
    Olds Mendez - 1/2" with tuning slide reconnected

    This REALLY works! I would LOVE to use this thread to collect the data, and summarize the results on a Table. Dr. Mark, has got to then take this to the lab and measure the frequency response of the slide position to demonstrate this effect. Then I recommend publishing this. Any one out there looking for a PhD thesis in trumpet or physics?
     
  7. VetPsychWars

    VetPsychWars Fortissimo User

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    Please to explain how the resonance of the metal has any relation to the resonance of the air column?

    Tom
     
  8. gmonady

    gmonady Utimate User

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    The bow vibrates one end (hard to blow a concentrated air column down the bell) and the blow at the mouthpiece end sets up the vibration into the leadpipe... If you can get both ends of the horn to vibrate in perfect resonance... Ohhmmmmm....
    [Almost as mind blowing as the Gmonady Raw of Power!]
     
  9. Brekelefuw

    Brekelefuw Fortissimo User

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    The problem with this, is that the bell and the leadpipe aren't built to be specific pitches in themselves. The trumpet is a sum of all the parts.
     
  10. gmonady

    gmonady Utimate User

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    But if you can but the sum of its parts in balance... I think Dr. Mark is on to something here.
     

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