Testing A Possible New Way To Tune A Trumpet

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by Dr.Mark, Jul 3, 2013.

  1. gmonady

    gmonady Utimate User

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    I just love it when Vulgano Brother talks dirty!:D
     
  2. tjcombo

    tjcombo Mezzo Forte User

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    s
    I wouldn't want to over analyse the graphs. This stuff was compiled on a PC with an ordinary sound card and a dynamic mic that I use for vocal work. The saw tooth and square waves should not roll off at all. It's a long way from lab quality kit. The dense part of the graph may be numerical "noise" from these inadequacies rather than any real audio component.

    There is however one potentially interesting aspect to the instrument graphs. Notice that the fundamental frequency (the left hand most spike) is not the strongest component of the sound. The relative amplitudes of the lowest frequency part of the spectrum may reveal more about the characteristics of a horn than the higher harmonica which change radically as the horn is played loud/soft. Notice that the fundamental and second harmonic of the flugel are the same amplitude whereas the third harmonic is the strongest on the two trumpets.
     
  3. kingtrumpet

    kingtrumpet Utimate User

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    of course this naturally prompts me to ask this question?? -- does anyone have any consensus as to whether a mpc will affect the outcome of the sound frequency??? would a shallow mpc inherently change the frequency of the sound vs. a deeper larger cup mpc?? ---- (((just a thought about some of the horns that don't allow tuning via this method))) ---- cause when I check all my horns, I used the same mpc ---- and realistically, if the horn (ie. Holton Collegiate) was designed for a particular mpc, then I inherently changed the design by using my "favorite" mpc. ---------------------just saying
     
  4. gmonady

    gmonady Utimate User

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    Not sure that really matters here as the real effect is how this all sounds to the human ear.
     
  5. kingtrumpet

    kingtrumpet Utimate User

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    yes, I was just thinking though, how people claim the mpc changes the sound so much --- wondering if there was any scientific evidence to prove that!!!!
     
  6. Dr.Mark

    Dr.Mark Mezzo Forte User

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    Now this is interesting and maybe the latchpin to the discussion about pure tone:
    "Your graphs won't settle the matter... and in the end... It's not the impure sounds your horn makes but the quality of sound your brain detect".
    ------------------------------------------------
    It seems to be a struggle with the argument; "which is correct, mechanical detection or subjective interpretation".
    Machines, and their ability to detect are a God send. Just ask any medical worker at St. Jude Children's Hospital or any hospital. Thousands of lives are saved every day because a machine was able to detect a physical problem.
    When it comes to sound, machines have the ability to determine when a stimuli is detected by the brain by looking at what parts of the the brain light up (usually based on blood flow). However, how and why we "intrepret" a stimuli remains a mystery. Now, take the idea of interpretation (not detection) and apply it to art and sound. We are too imperfect to compare ourselves to the detection abilities of machines just as machines are woefully inept at determining how and why we come to the conclusions that we do.
    In short. mechanical detection and human interpretation are possibly not good bed fellows.
    However, if the machine is willing to wear a nice neglige' and develop a seductive smile then maybe, just maybe.....
    Dr.Mark
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2013
  7. bumblebee

    bumblebee Fortissimo User

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    Hi KT,

    every microphone will have its own frequency response characteristic, and though the best ones will have as "flat" a response as possible, ones mere mortals can afford will usually have some non-flat areas in their frequency response graph.

    This web-page tells more, and I'm sorry if this is not actually what you were saying.
    Frequency Response

    Kind regards,
    --bumblebee

    UPDATE: I did misread your post -- mouthpiece, not microphone, you said.
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2013
  8. tjcombo

    tjcombo Mezzo Forte User

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    The test for this should be fairly simple - to test different MPCs with the same horn and same mic. I'll try this on the weekend and post both sound and spectra graphs. Not sure how it will turn out but let's see.
     
  9. kingtrumpet

    kingtrumpet Utimate User

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    thanks -- this will be an interesting concept to check
     
  10. stumac

    stumac Fortissimo User

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    The fundamental frequency between different mouthpieces in a horn will only be small, the main determining factor being the overall length of the combination.

    The amplitude of the various harmonics in the spectral distribution is where the differences are. I have only tested 2 mouthpieces in one horn, a Monette B2 and an Asymmetric 342 lead in a Benge 3x MLP, the spectra were significantly different. I will repeat the experiment with other horns and mouthpieces soon, I do not have the results in the computer only on paper prints. I think tjcombo may have seen them.

    Regards, Stuart.
     

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