Testing A Possible New Way To Tune A Trumpet

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by Dr.Mark, Jul 3, 2013.

  1. Vulgano Brother

    Vulgano Brother Moderator Staff Member

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    The mouthpiece will affect the external spectrum, and can be tuned to the trumpet.
     
  2. SmoothOperator

    SmoothOperator Mezzo Forte User

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    I would expect that the backbore may effect the frequency of the swooshing/whistling by changing the overall length and size of the lead pipe, but that the shape of the rim and throat would primarily effect how loud the swooshing/whistling is.
     
  3. kingtrumpet

    kingtrumpet Utimate User

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    what? -- is this the tape method? -- where we put tape on the mpc shank before we insert it in the leadpipe -- to change the pitch? -well I read about it once, and how it was supposed to help with slotting I think --- but it never helped me much, not as long as I discovered the SECRET TRUMPET TECHNIQUES BOOK written by AL P. Laymore. ROFL ROFL ROFL
     
  4. gmonady

    gmonady Utimate User

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    I do believe the backbore will effect the frequency, but enhancing the amplitude when the wave form leaving the bore end is at peak resonance as it enters the leadpipe. It would be interesting to see a recording comparison, as I predict the frequency spectrum would be the same (x axis) but the amplitude (y axis) would be enhanced.
     
  5. tjcombo

    tjcombo Mezzo Forte User

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    I've just done some quick tests using one trumpet and the two most diverse mouthpieces that I have. The trumpet was my Olds Super. The two mouthpieces were a) Bach 1X and b) Kelly screamer. In an attempt to keep all things equal, I tried to keep the horn the same distance from the mic, then recorded Bb concert 3, 4 and 5 with a crescendo on each note. This allowed me to analyse a small sample at the same level (was able to get this within 1 or 2db).

    Surprising findings - at the same volume, the spectra were almost the same - so close that I'd be dubious about interpreting variations given the simple test setup. I hate the Kelly Screamer. It sounds thin and crappy to me whilst playing, but when I listen to the recordings at the same level, they are remarkably similar (maybe I sound thin and crappy regardless of MPC :-)).

    I think that the effect here is as per the graph of harmonic content vs volume that VB posted a page or two back. The results make me wonder if the difference between "lead" and ordinary/shallow and deep mouthpieces is largely that they make it easier to blow at a particular level at a particular range rather than being responsible for the sound.

    Something that was interesting is that the Bb below the staff had harmonics going way up as high as the harmonics from Bb5. Looks like the trumpet is behaving as some sort of high-pass filter with a fixed roll-off frequency - not unreasonable to expect I guess. It'd be interesting to try this experiment on some of the horns that TMers find to perform better in the upper register to see if they don't attenuate higher order harmonics as much. At radio frequencies, transmission lines become much less efficient as frequencies go higher - Jason Harrelson's SWE theories and resultant designs make sense when considered in this light.
     
  6. gmonady

    gmonady Utimate User

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    This was a cool experiment! Just wondering, while the spectrum was almost identical, did the amplitudes (y- axis) change between mouthpieces?
     
  7. Dr.Mark

    Dr.Mark Mezzo Forte User

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    Hey Guys & Gals,
    If you test decide to test your trumpet using the directions on page 1, if possible, let us know what you found.
    Here's what we're looking for:
    1.Once you did the test, did the tuning slide end up where it usually is or was there a big difference?
    2. If the tuning slide is in a different place than usual, did it make the trumpet easier to play.
    As always, thanks for taking the time to check your trumpet(s) and letting us know what you found.
    Dr.Mark
     
  8. tobylou8

    tobylou8 Utimate User

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    What? You trying to keep this thread on topic??!! ROFLROFLROFLROFL ;-);-);-);-)
     
  9. tjcombo

    tjcombo Mezzo Forte User

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    I chose a sample from each mpc where the amplitude of the strongest component of the series of harmonics were close to equal. At that amplitude, the spectra matched very closely in both harmonic content and amplitude. It wasn't what I expected to see.
     
  10. tjcombo

    tjcombo Mezzo Forte User

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    Sorry Dr.Mark, I'm party to a hijack here. As per my previous none of my horns exhibited that behaviour.

    I'm beginning to suspect that "easy to play" is mostly in one's head. On some days I think to myself "damn, xyz horn is playing beautifully today" then I get out my Holton Revelation which is generally easiest (the right notes just pour effortlessly out, nice tone, good intonation) and find that it's still easier to play. Without doing direct a-b testing against a known benchmark declaring a horn to play better with the tuning slide an 1/8" further in/out is a dodgy proposition - JMHO
     

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