Testing A Possible New Way To Tune A Trumpet

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by Dr.Mark, Jul 3, 2013.

  1. Dr.Mark

    Dr.Mark Mezzo Forte User

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    Apr 5, 2011
    Hi tj,
    You stated:
    "Sorry Dr.Mark, I'm party to a hijack here. As per my previous none of my horns exhibited that behaviour."
    ------------------
    Actually it's kinda neat to see what new ideas have come from my late night adventures with lead pipe playing. Who knows what it can lead to? That's in part why (for me) stuff like this is so interesting. Who would have figured that Benoit Mandelbrat would have come up with fractal geometry and self similarity by working on computers at IBM. It's easy to imagine that he would have come up with some sort of hardware or software but a new way to approach geometry? Just goes to show that thinking about one idea can sometimes be the light switch or a springboard for another idea.
    tj, you may have already answered this but when you tuned your horns with the new method, did the tuning slides end up where they normally would be?
    Thanks
    Dr.Mark
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2013
  2. Dr.Mark

    Dr.Mark Mezzo Forte User

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    Hi Folks,
    If possible, please let us know what type of trumpet you tuned using the new method of tuning. Instructions can be found on page one. Also, every person that tries this little experiment and reports the results, regardless of what they are, will recieve a big thank you from me, your friendly but deranged member in good standing. Just think folks. If this actually works, it could be a paradigm shift in how approach tuning.
    Dr.Mark
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2013
  3. wlindseypoole

    wlindseypoole New Friend

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    Tallahassee, FL
    Wow! I realize that this topic has been laying dormant for a few months, but it is quite interesting with a lot of the results. It makes me consider some different possible factors that may affect attempting to tune this way..... ( havent finished reading all 24 pages yet, so if I duplicate anyone's remarks or possible observations or curiosities I do apologize)

    1) what about material differences between the leadpipe/slide combo and the bell? example, the late model Conn 6B Victor, the bell is yellow brass and the leadpipe is coprion. Of course, there are a lot more examples I could go with, but i wont drag it out
    2) what kind of difference will there be between different platings on the same type trumpets? example, a standard Bach Strad 37 in yellow brass and one in silver plate, or maybe one that's been taken to raw brass with no plating
    3) what difference will valve block location make? example, whether the valve block is set closer to the mouthpiece, or more centered in the horn
    4) how about horns that are very close to one another, with only 1 or 2 differences (which can and often do affect the brightness of the horn)? example, the Connstellation 36B and 38B (almost identical except bell size and bracing size)
    5) has anyone measured the length of both test sections of the horn ( this may corrolate somewhat to question 3 above- also, this may be easier with an extra set of hands)? example, remove the first and third valve slides, place a straight edge across the bell, and place a finger inside the 1st valve casing over the opening for the bell. then have someone run something down the bell (a small gauge solid core copper wire perhaps, plastic coated of course) until it reaches your finger. Have them mark the wire (or whatever is used) where it meets the straight edge. Then do the same thing through the leadpipe down to the end of the tuning slide when you find the matching pitch, or replace the slide to the "in tune" mark (the halfway mark you make on the slide). See where the mark on the wire ends up- are they equal?
    6) how about the "same name" horn from different eras (especially before/after production facilities change)? example, Olds Ambassadors, L.A. and Fullerton

    Just some questions that might have some merit when performing the initial tests- or as the song says "Things that make you go 'Hmmmmmm' "

    I'd perform these tests myself if I currently had a horn to do it on, but I should have one about mid-Feb, so I will be able to try the #5 at least. Its quite an incredibly intriguing topic.
     
  4. wlindseypoole

    wlindseypoole New Friend

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    I didnt realize that this topic would stir up these kind of curious feelings that would make me come up with those type of questions. I'm feeling a little verklempt. Talk amongst yourselves. I'll give you a topic- Buttahflies are neither made out of buttah, nor are they flies. Discuss.
     
  5. wlindseypoole

    wlindseypoole New Friend

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    There- it passed. This post is dedicated to Barbara Streisand
     
  6. redintheface

    redintheface Pianissimo User

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    Bath, UK
    Wow, I just spent the last three weeks reading every single post in one go!

    Now it's 1.00am on Christmas morning here in NZ, and I forgot to go shopping for a tree or presents - oh well, spent the money on a picc anyway ROFL

    Serious questions though, and deserve serious consideration. I remember doing schoolboy acoustics back in the late 1700s, and if I remember rightly, the standing wave (of the resonant frequency) in a pipe starts and ends somewhere OUTSIDE the pipe, and as the frequency increases (to first major overtone/second etc.) the standing wave ends draw in closer to the end of the pipe. This has the effect of making the relative tuning between the natural overtones within a pipe actually not in tune.

    So if we start at low C on a Bb instrument, the end of the standing wave is further from the end of the bell than G in the stave, which is further from the bell than C in the stave, and so on. The difference might be minute, but that's what we are working with here - fractions of an inch.

    Trouble is, I can't remember if it makes it sharp as you go up the overtones, or flat.

    Also, I haven't read in any post exactly what note people are tuning their instruments to, and whether they have tried tuning to different notes (low C, mid G, mid C etc.) and whether or not Dr. Mark's theory still holds true.

    Can anyone shed any light on this?
     
  7. gmonady

    gmonady Utimate User

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    Dayton, Ohio
    So... You've been drinking the spiked eggnog haven't you?:bravo:
     
  8. gmonady

    gmonady Utimate User

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    Dayton, Ohio
    I mean it's Christmas morning. The Lord can shed the light on us all.... from the one star that shines above them all

    Merry Christmas NZ

    (you can wish us this tomorrow)
     
  9. wlindseypoole

    wlindseypoole New Friend

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    Nah gmonady- I'm lactose intolerant, so i skipped on the eggnog and went straight to the spiked part instead ROFL
     
  10. wlindseypoole

    wlindseypoole New Friend

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    Tallahassee, FL
    OK- so I lied. I'm NOT really lactose intolerant, I just didnt want it interfering with the spike :oops:
     

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