Testing A Possible New Way To Tune A Trumpet

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by Dr.Mark, Jul 3, 2013.

  1. VetPsychWars

    VetPsychWars Fortissimo User

    Nov 8, 2006
    Greenfield WI
    Mark, I don't know you, I don't know why you persisted in messaging me when I didn't want you to, but there comes a point where a person has to stand yp and say


    Your horsefeathers is nonsense. Take it away from here.

    I won't get banned, I don't think, because when I asked the one real mathematical question... everyone stepped back and said "woah, why didn't I think of that?"

    I'm sorry I'm insulting your religion but I have no respect for charlatans or their acolytes.

    So, again, I am deeply sorry that I have offended your religion... but the next time you can't add two plus two... ask for guidance somewhere else.

    I am welcoming a ban from this community if it is deserved.

    Last edited: Jul 6, 2013
  2. Dr.Mark

    Dr.Mark Mezzo Forte User

    Apr 5, 2011
    Oh my!! You don't have to worry about me bothering you anymore. I think this topic will suffice in bothering you for years to come. Welcome to your new nightmare. You created it, so you enjoy it.
  3. motteatoj

    motteatoj Mezzo Forte User

    Feb 23, 2013
    Tuckahoe, NY
    Back to more topical things...

    Someone else had suggested this in the past.

    Does anyone know the origin of this test?
    Would be interesting to know.
  4. Vulgano Brother

    Vulgano Brother Moderator Staff Member

    Mar 23, 2006
    Parts Unknown
    Way beyond my acoustics training, but in 1965, Robert Pyle at the Harvard Acoustics Laboratory recognized a remarkable property of waves in horns, in which the product A[SUB]1[/SUB]A[SUB]2[/SUB] is a constant from one end to the other, sort of like an inside out and backwards trumpet. (Like I said, beyond my training.)

    Any horn shape has then a dual sort of like the Bizarro Superman (like I said, beyond my training) with identical natural frequencies. These duals, even with the same characteristic frequencies do not necessarily have the same standing wave patterns, radiation behavior or variation of wave impedance.

    Like I said, way beyond my training, but an interesting concept.

    Me, I'll tune to the oboe.
  5. kingtrumpet

    kingtrumpet Utimate User

    Sep 20, 2009
    New York State USA
    just an FYI for Tom ((and by far, I am not one to get into an argument with anyone -- cause I am rather a nice guy!!! ROFL)) --- but just wanted to inform Tom that this argument is probably not making his case --- after all there is actually quite a bit of information giving dandelions some efficacy in treating cancer -- here are but a few articles.

    Discover a common yard weed that's proven to kill cancer cells

    there are multitudes of other reference material out there.

    there - I hope that helps in your future discussions Tom --- and you can thank me later !!! ROFL ROFL ROFL
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2013
  6. VetPsychWars

    VetPsychWars Fortissimo User

    Nov 8, 2006
    Greenfield WI
    I will indeed "thank" you "later".

  7. kingtrumpet

    kingtrumpet Utimate User

    Sep 20, 2009
    New York State USA
    and also -- Play and be happy!!!! have an Awesome day!!!
  8. gmonady

    gmonady Utimate User

    Jan 28, 2011
    Dayton, Ohio
    It was me, and the origin was Dr. Mark who discussed this with me, and tweaked up the idea before he decided to post HIS EXCELLENT idea on this thread. I cannot take credit for his astute observations. I just know they work.
  9. tjcombo

    tjcombo Forte User

    Nov 12, 2012
    Melbourne, Australia
    Interesting to see the impassioned discussion on this topic. Having run the experiment on several horns (post # 14) and thought about the results and subsequent posts, my skepticism has been reinforced, so I'm inclined to agree with Tom's (somewhat more vehement) call on this.

    The big thing that concerned me originally about this theory, is that if the chunks of metal that contain our resonating column of air were to exhibit a significant resonance then this would colour notes of some pitch and not others. This would be analogous to crappy loudspeaker enclosures which have resonances within the range of working frequencies with resultant uneven sound reproduction.

    I'm pleased for the couple of posters have found some positive results, but then again I'm sure that we've all played in a room which is a little "brighter" than usual. Maybe the curtains were opened, some soft furnishings removed, whatever, but the resulting extra reverb makes you think "darn, I sound good today!". It doesn't take much to make a subtle change in our sound or the way we perceive it. Perception is after all reality, so if this works for you, good luck. I just don't believe that the cause of your sweet-spot is the sum of mechanical resonances. There may be some magic spot where the gap at the end of the tuning slide causes a desirable component of turbulence - maybe like the carefully positioned spit valves in some rotaries, who knows?

    Whatever, I'm happy to read and maybe try new theories. Besides, it's way cheaper than mouthpiece-lotto and there's no shipping costs :-)

  10. stumac

    stumac Fortissimo User

    Oct 19, 2008
    Flinders Vic Australia
    I have organised a bow for next weekend to have for a couple of weeks, by then I will have my audio spectrum analyzer and frequency meter set up again, looking forward to some interesting results.

    tj, did you see my Ferron Selmer C with the side micrometer adjusters at the receiver and bottom leg of the tuning slide, the nearest I can find to this aproach is impedence matching stubs on a rf transmission line, Ernest Ferron called them "Impedence regulators" I have yet to play with them.

    Regards, Stuart.

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