The Artist...

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by gordonfurr1, Jul 19, 2015.

  1. Ed Lee

    Ed Lee Utimate User

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    All I can say about most of Van Gogh's paintings is that they have extreme monetary value. Then I'd much rather enjoy a Monet than a Manet, but can't afford to own either, and if I presently did, no place to hang them in a secure suitable environment. Still, to pick the ultimate graphic artist It's a toss up for me between Leonardo da Vinci and Raphael. We all have preferential likes and dislikes, but its something else to recognize the skills of a craft.
     
  2. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    It is a mistake to view any quality music as "loose". It just ain't so. The skill level required to play "loosely" makes it unloose. The difference is not chaos vs order. The problem with this argument is that "loose" is assumed to imply not following strict structure or form. ALL of the jazz colleagues that I have, leverage form in a very strict way. This is equally true of those involved in modern "experimental" projects.

    I personally see no quality music as being "loose". I see incredible amounts of creativity with any quality performance. I do not consider even historically informed performance practice as limiting expression. Historical intonation and articulation offers modern listeners incredible dabs of color - in ways even the composers back then never had. Their frame of reference was different! We also view paintings much differently because we have video/cameras, holography and 3D - all missing from previous generations perspective.
     
  3. LaTrompeta

    LaTrompeta Forte User

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    Loose would be a middle school band concert.
    I would consider a good jazz band as being "tight." Especially if the rhythms are spot on.
     
  4. gordonfurr1

    gordonfurr1 Forte User

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    And that is my point.
    There is a profound difference in which neural process is used between the act of actual creation and the act of faithful reproduction. Different aspects of the brain are used. Different processes. Different networks. Different results.
    It is a different thing.
     
  5. Sethoflagos

    Sethoflagos Utimate User

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    ...and especially if all players are playing the same, or at least complementary styles.

    This is the point missed when being dismissive of the 'unknown bandsman'. The part in front of him can be played in many different styles beyond the mere layout of the tadpoles. And though he may be no Marsalis, Balsom or Andre, he still has choices in phrasing, attack, dynamics and timbre that can contribute to the overall artistic merit of the performance. If he and others choose badly, the performance will feel disjointed or wooden. If everybody chooses well, something else takes over and the performance becomes, as Celibdache would have put it, a transcendental experience. We've all experienced the former. I hope most of us have had the good fortune to be involved in the latter - because that's the point where we are being genuinely and positively creative. All of us. Not just 'the chosen few'.
     
  6. gordonfurr1

    gordonfurr1 Forte User

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    I was referring to the "looseness" inherent to impressionism. I agree that does not translate directly to music. The closest that would is the lack rigidity in some jazz, for instance. Lightly touching on the rudimentary before flitting away like a butterfly flitting from a sunflower.
     
  7. trickg

    trickg Utimate User

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    I agree - my point was only to say that once the other processes start getting used regularly, it can, and probably will, affect the rest of what a player is doing.

    As weird as this may sound, as I started getting more involved in drumming, I became much more aware of phrasing, and not just from an intellectual perspective. Anyone can intellectually learn how phrasing is supposed to work in terms of where to breathe, where and how to release, how to attack, etc. What happened for me is that the intellectual parts fell away and a different level of expressiveness emerged. Broken down intellectually it was all still there - I just stopped thinking about it that way and it started to happen naturally, and with more subtlety.

    In any case, I believe that it was the fact that I was drumming that brought that about, and I don't know why because drumming is a whole different set of skills with a much different approach to expression, phrasing and musicality.
     
  8. gordonfurr1

    gordonfurr1 Forte User

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    There you go.
    I was not intending to demean anyone. I'm just aware in my own experience when I shift into that other neural state...
    I had similar experiences with a worship team...but not drums.
    Playing guitar I was given freedom to interpret as I felt...playing French horn was different...with that I followed a written score very carefully. The score was by Israel Houghton and was beautifully and amazingly scored...HE provided the creation, I followed it.
    Also, when playing trumpet in the group, it was free. It was used somewhat as an answer or echo to the melody's highlights...again, free for our interpretation and not at all to a score.
    Different mindset.
    Different place in my head.
     
  9. gordonfurr1

    gordonfurr1 Forte User

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    I was just listening to a Joni Mitchell concert last night...with Pat Mattheny.
     
  10. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    Yeah, kind of my point. There is impressionism in music. There are flicks of color (check out anything involving Jordi Savall). To the "casual" eye/ear, seemingly random. I find it fascinating that if you take time to really study painting, you can tell the painter based on a couple of strokes - just like recognizing Maurice André (Marsalis, Miles, Maynard, Faddis, ..... ) on just a couple of notes.

    The fascinating part of this thread is that there is discussion at many different levels of technique, style, attitude, perspective.

    Joni Mitchell with a guitar, a dulcian, an electric guitar, piano. She is painting. She covered so much territory in her lifetime, but 2 or three notes and you know who it is.

     

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