The front and back of a beat?

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by Practice, Nov 15, 2011.

  1. kehaulani

    kehaulani Fortissimo User

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    Hawaian homey
    MFfan, that's not for musical effect in the context of the above discussion, that sounds like your director getting the band to compensate.

    Regarding hanging back as much as a half a beat, I wouldn't call that laid back, I would call it syncopation at that point.

    Laid back = Dexter Gordon. And BTW, Dex can play chorus after chorus of exciting, energy charged music laying just behind the beat.
     
  2. gmonady

    gmonady Utimate User

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    But if you speak out anywhere inside the bubble, well, then you have bubble rap!


    Sorry Brekelefuw, this a IS really cool way to describe the technique, but I just couldn't resist!
     
  3. Brekelefuw

    Brekelefuw Fortissimo User

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    I got it from Mingus' autobiography I think, and he got it from Duke or something similar. I take ne credit for it.
     
  4. Chuck Cox

    Chuck Cox Forte User

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    I thought he said KGB.
     
  5. Mark_Kindy

    Mark_Kindy Mezzo Forte User

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    I always thought of on top of or behind the beat by contrasting ideas of dragging or rushing with the concept of placement:

    Dragging -- playing at a slightly slower tempo
    Rushing -- playing at a slightly faster tempo

    By dragging and rushing, you're not affecting the placement of the notes, but how long they sound, how much time it takes to play a passage.

    When you're playing on top of the beat, you're playing at the correct tempo, but just placing the note just slightly ahead of the tick of a metronome, CONSISTENTLY. The opposite is true for being behind the beat (you play consistently just behind the tick of the metronome). HOWEVER, you will still be playing IN TIME, and that is the most important thing.

    Also note, although I referenced a metronome, I wouldn't practice placement by using one necessarily, but rather developing a feel for it. The best way to do that is to find other bands that play on the part of the beat you want --- for instance, for behind the beat, the Stan Kenton band works pretty darn well at it.

    Hope this helps clear it up!
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2011
  6. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    I think comparing this to math is not useful. When the band follows you, you are on top/at the front. That is good when you are a lead player. It has NOTHING to do with rushing or dragging. It has to do with the lead players excellent "feel" for groove. If you are in the section, you do what the lead player sets as an example. Being on the back of the beat means that everything is rounder, not as sharp as being in front of the beat. In both cases, the audience can't help but tap their feet!

    Your teacher was telling you this probably because someone was dragging - they were way behind the beat and really messed up the groove!
     
  7. gmonady

    gmonady Utimate User

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    Music is about rhythm. That is what keeps the feeling moving, the pulse flowing. Dragging and rushing are counter to the rhythm, and in most cases, disrupts the flow of the rhythm as dragging and rushing IS changing the rhythm. Playing ahead or behind the beat is still maintaining the flow, the pulse, but putting some "stink" on it. And as long as you stay withing the bubble (man I love that concept), feet will be tappin.
     
  8. kingtrumpet

    kingtrumpet Utimate User

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    I am sorry but I don't get the concept of bubba rap -- I can't see his lips moving either

    Bubba Rap - YouTube
     
  9. Chuck Cox

    Chuck Cox Forte User

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    I liked the bubble analogy too ! I don't know if I'm ready to put some " stink " on it yet. Where does one get some " stink " ? Don't answer that question. I don't want to sidetrack this discussion. Just kidding about the stink thing Gary ( my fellow Committee brother ).
     
  10. gmonady

    gmonady Utimate User

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    Brothers to the end my friend, brothers to the end. These horns are keepers!

    The term "Stink" impliescreative energy. Ike and Tina Turner used this term in describing their songs.A milder version is "putting sauce on the notes."
     

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