The Intonation

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by trumpetrelax, Jan 18, 2009.

  1. GoodMusic@PA

    [email protected] Piano User

    291
    1
    Aug 7, 2008
    You can but you need to relearn.... hardwork...:-)
     
  2. GoodMusic@PA

    [email protected] Piano User

    291
    1
    Aug 7, 2008
    You can, by relearning... hardwork...:-)
     
  3. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

    Age:
    61
    16,616
    7,965
    Jun 18, 2006
    Germany
    Darrien,
    don't worry about it. Play duets with somebody better than you are and you will learn to "hear the difference". Intonation is indeed relative to the ensemble with which you are playing. It is a process that needs to be learned. It is not an intellectual process where you can figure it out without doing it. It is simply learning by doing!

    I teach intonation by playing long tones. My students play a different tone and we play around until it matches. It becomes immediately obvious when you work like this.
     
  4. Markie

    Markie Forte User

    2,156
    15
    Jan 4, 2009
    Clarksburg, WV
    Hi Darrien and Trumpetrelax,
    Here's a great example of "Trust but Verify".

    rowuk wrote about intonation:
    "Depending on the slotting capabilities of the horn, playing on the resonant center can actually be in the way of good ensemble intonation and blend".

    Here's how to ask:

    Hi rowuk,
    "can you lead us towards some sites that will support your claim about playing on the resonant center and its detrement to ensemble playing?"

    The key is to ask respectfully.

    Now, If no verification sites can be given then be aware. I'm not saying the info is incorrect, just know that support for the info isn't being rendered because they don't wish to look for it or can't find it, they have it but don't wish to share it or it doesn't exist.
    Verification helps cut through the baloney! It's not 100% baloney proof but its a darned good beginning.
     
  5. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

    Age:
    61
    16,616
    7,965
    Jun 18, 2006
    Germany
    Markie, the issue of intonation for each note not being absolute has been covered and verified. The single frequency for each note at which the horn slots best is singular. You have to bend it into shape for every other instance that you play the note. Many times (especially with higher pitched trumpets) you have to use alternate fingerings to even get close to the pitch required in an ensemble. The pivot system and many other sins were explanations for the body needing to compensate for bad hardware performance.

    The resonant center is actually a great subject for an additional thread. I think it may confuse the original intention of the thread owner.

    Here is a good start on learning about intonation:
    Just intonation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Why does Just Intonation sound so good?
    Just Intonation

    Chris Leubas excellent piece: A Study of Musical Intonation available here: Welcome to WindSong Press

    This is a great piece on trumpet intonation: Trumpet Intonation Tendencies
    and this:
    Intonation on trumpets

    and this:
    Understanding Brass Instrument Intonation

    This is also why teaching the resonant center is interesting-AFTER the ears work! A fat tone that is a bit too sharp or flat does not help anybody.

    I only post on things where I have first hand experience.
     
  6. Darrien

    Darrien Pianissimo User

    51
    0
    Nov 27, 2008
    St Vincent (West Indies)
    Rowuk,

    I started reading that stuff on Just Intonation.... wheeew! Went right over my head I think. Guess all of that is the physics of the sounds, I'd follow up on that later on. I've still got to read the other links on instrument intonation.

    Darrien
     
  7. wiseone2

    wiseone2 Artitst in Residence Staff Member

    3,418
    373
    Nov 19, 2003
    Brooklyn,NY
    This is an important topic. There are many things that it brings into focus. Quite often trumpet players complain about instruments being out of tune, when the truth is that they are playing the instrument out of tune. Sometimes it sounds like players here never get out in the real world and play with other musicians. You will improve by leaps and bounds if you play with other musicians. It is a must!

    Maybe TrumpetMaster can act like a dating service and put trumpet players together for the playing of duets, trios and so forth. Hmmmmmm.
    I'm surprised no one has thought of this before :cool:

    Get busy guys!

    Wilmer
     
  8. Markie

    Markie Forte User

    2,156
    15
    Jan 4, 2009
    Clarksburg, WV
    Now that's the way it's done!! thank you rowuk for supporting your claims and giving many people sitew to refer to. Bravo
     

Share This Page