the myth of "fast air"

Discussion in 'Trumpet Pedagogy' started by rowuk, May 2, 2008.

  1. kalijah

    kalijah New Friend

    40
    0
    May 5, 2008
    Well, no hiss, is ever required.

    Yes I do believe that a smaller oral space has less outward force making it easier to control the embouchure.

    But if you make it too small. Such that a hissing sound occurs. You will lose air energy and efficiency quite drastically.

    An efficient embouchure requres less air pressure. To me that is a better goal.
     
  2. Bixel

    Bixel Pianissimo User

    142
    1
    Jan 1, 2010
    Germany
    Does that mean the air velocity has no impact on the aperture tissue?
    That would not fit my experience.
    Maybe my experience - or what I consider to be my experience - misguides me.

    The "aperture" is just a model since there is no (constant) aperture but a thing switching from closed to open and back to closed and so forth with the frequence of the tone.
    The same with velocity! Let's take the average velocity of air at a given pitch - if you will.

    In my thinking the variation of loudness is a matter of the number of air molecules I let pass the aperture per second for a given pitch.
    So: Crescending from a pianissimo C'' to a forte C'' to me means to (unconsciously) open the aperture and at the same time to increase air pressure to a certain degree, so that more air molecules move - each with the same velocity as each of those few molecules in pianissimo before - through the (now bigger) aperture.

    Since the details are so very complex and so really hard to examine I am satisfied with finding just a model which declares what I experience.
    Would be very interesting though to learn what really happens.

    Let's wait for NASA running out of space shuttles one day.

    :roll:
    .
     
  3. kalijah

    kalijah New Friend

    40
    0
    May 5, 2008
    There have been some studies and very scholarly papers written.

    The conclusion is the size of the vibrating aperture is the DOMINANT factor of pitch. That is, the lateral amount that is allowed to vibrate. (Not necessarily the size of the opening due to largerer or smaller pulse, amplitude)

    It is quite analogous to a vibrating string. A shorter string has a higher frequency. A more tense or "stiff" string also has a higher frequency.

    What we do by controllling the pulsing aperture is a melding of both.

    Most are uncomfortable with this TRUE analogy because they believe that it advocates stretching or "smashing" the aperture. But that is not what is implied.
     
  4. kalijah

    kalijah New Friend

    40
    0
    May 5, 2008
    You just did.
     
  5. Bixel

    Bixel Pianissimo User

    142
    1
    Jan 1, 2010
    Germany
    I'm fine with that.
    But we cannot form willingly the "lateral amount" of the aperture.
    When there is no air moving there is no aperture - the lips are just closed.

    The aperture is a result of a balance between air pressure and lip clamp.
    And (for me, again) air velocity becomes one of the determining factors.

    So we are back where we began.

    :-)
    .
     
  6. nordlandstrompet

    nordlandstrompet Forte User

    1,839
    221
    Apr 5, 2008
    Norway
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
     
  7. kalijah

    kalijah New Friend

    40
    0
    May 5, 2008
    Of course we can.


    A string that is not vibrating (at rest) can still have vibrational length, the amplitude is simply zero. Same with the lip.

    How did you measure the air velocity? Did you correlate it to pitch? To loudness?

    No. YOU are back where we began.
     
  8. Bixel

    Bixel Pianissimo User

    142
    1
    Jan 1, 2010
    Germany
    Okay - thanks for your time spent.
    We obviously are no help for each other.
    No problem.

    :-)
    .
     
  9. Markie

    Markie Forte User

    2,156
    15
    Jan 4, 2009
    Clarksburg, WV
    There have been some studies and very scholarly papers written.
    -----------------
    I've done some internet searches on this topic and only found a smattering of stuff, and most of it wasn't scholarly. If you can lead me towards these articles (IGT by Moore I already have) are, I will read them. I'm always interested in learning more and thank you.
     
  10. nordlandstrompet

    nordlandstrompet Forte User

    1,839
    221
    Apr 5, 2008
    Norway
    [​IMG]
     

Share This Page