Those forward jaw "Upstream" cats

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by Local 357, Jan 22, 2012.

  1. Ed Lee

    Ed Lee Utimate User

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    All I can say is I don't need anything to whistle and can do so both inward and outward as like a harmonica and with or without my new dentures. Too, I generally hold a cornet, picc trumpet, Bb trumpet about level and parallel to the floor.
    It's just that my wife can't stand my whistling in the house, so I walk the streets and whistle. Too, I've found first whistling new music gives me much more understanding of it.
     
  2. Jerry Freedman

    Jerry Freedman Piano User

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    I can even whistle with double and triple tongueing but it does my trumpetplaying no good at all
     
  3. Ed Lee

    Ed Lee Utimate User

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    I don't promote that whistling does any good for playing trumpet, but I don't find it does any harm either. As stated, the only connection I find would be for the preview of music that I may subsequently play on trumpet or other brass horn.
     
  4. brian moon

    brian moon Forte User

    Maynard said in a clinic in 1973 that he played with a wet upper lip and dry lower.
     
  5. BrotherBACH

    BrotherBACH Piano User

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    OK. I do not have a high range. But, since September, I went from maxing-out at exercise 19 of Clarke Study I. I was blowing my brains out and half the notes were air. Now, as of this moment I can very relaxed and easily play exercise 25 in study I (high C). My lips still feel fresh. The only thing that changed was learning how to use my toungue and embrouchure to compress and focus my air across the lips. When I do have a high arch, I notice that my jaw "may" be a bit forward. Also, learning to clamp the sides (ie. corners of my lips while allowing the center to vibrate seems to be important. That is why tension kills.

    BrotherBACH
     
  6. kingtrumpet

    kingtrumpet Utimate User

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    OK -- since this is local357's thread, and he turned me on to the trombone as an extra "tool" in expanding trumpet range. Let me say this -- last night was the first night to start switching in the middle of my practices --- from trombone, to trumpet, and back and forth. I found that playing the trumpet AFTER the bone to really "light" up the high register of at least the D, E, and F above high C. They were loud, and somewhat controllable at that volume.

    In looking in the mirror -- AND FEEL -- it seems that my lips which often protrude into my mpc --- are now, (more or less) even on the trumpet mpc. I theorize that the trombone mpc and hence creating a decent sound on the trombone ---the lips need to be more or less even with each other (and not the top lip protruding out farther than the bottom or vice versa). It also seems that instead of having a "slight" pout type embouchure -- the bone has "lifted" the corners a bit --- almost like a non-surgical facelift. So the end result seems to be ---EXACTLY what local and others have said --- The trombone will help the trumpet playing -----SO YES AL INNELLA, I can see where the APERTURE on my trumpet mpc -- has opened, ever so slightly -- and causes those few notes above high C to actually be LOUD, so I can also see that I have some more work to do -- ON MAKING THIS WHOLE SYSTEM come together, where the trumpet (above high C) will eventually seem as natural as all the other notes ------------mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, keep learning, and playing, and learning, and I can see where it might ALL come together in the near future.
     
  7. kehaulani

    kehaulani Fortissimo User

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    Hawaian homey
    How is that possible? As soon as one wet lip touches the other, dry lip, it is also now wet, no?
     
  8. Local 357

    Local 357 Banned

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    No not really. The contact surface on the dry lip stays dry due to the hermetic seal made by the mouthpiece rim.


    Dry lip chop settings are probably more of a common denominator in strong scream players than even the forward jaw positioning. Although the forward jaw is more conducive to dry lip playing as well. So its a double whammy help: The forward jaw tends to lend itself to dry lip play and the dry lip often allows easier high notes. That and the forward jaw positioning in and of itself is associated with high note proficiency.

    One cat who switched to forward jaw and had great success is Roy Roman. He used the "Stevens Costello Triple C Embouchure Technique" to do it and has remained a leading teacher of the system ever since. Problem is that it just doesn't work for the great majority. That said it is instructive to watch Roy's videos and to learn of his experiences. Initially Roy played the forward jaw system with dry lips. It comes easier that way. After a bit though he trained himself to play wet. Or at least this is what he claims to have done. By playing wet it is easier to maintain the same feel throughout the playing gig. Dry lips require, well constant drying as shown in Mark Zauss's video with "Future Corps".

    Assuming one can even play forward jaw they are likely to find the upper register far easier to produce.

    However most trumpet players use a receded jaw setting. Some have good range but seriously high screaming range is less common. Fortunately for most of us receded jaw players we can produce a "huge volume of tone in the upper register" quote from Donald Reinhardt. So when compared to an un-amplified forward jaw player? The audience will probably only hear our kind.

    Forward jaw screamers tend to be squeak artists.
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2012
  9. Al Innella

    Al Innella Forte User

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    Well I see LeeC is at it again. How anyone can say one type of embouchure is better than another and that this what causes players to be squeakers as opposed to full toned is ridiculous.I know many players from both schools of embouchure ,and you can't tell one from the other just by listening.Forward,upstream, receded,or downstream has nothing to do with what kind of sound or range a player can develop. It's easy to make excuses and look for short cuts instead of just practicing.
     
  10. brian moon

    brian moon Forte User

    Body is about 60% water so how dry is it in the first place? Dry really isn't dry; it is just drier to start.
     

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