Tighten the Corners/Aperture/General Embouchure Struggles

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by neal085, Feb 21, 2014.

  1. Cornyandy

    Cornyandy Fortissimo User

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    I'll take exception to you on on point only Rowuk yes you are right we are not literally blowing through a tube but the amount of over complication we see on here sometimes drives me to distraction. If we fight to try to do something "special" then we are not allowing that resonant structure to do its job and sometimes it helps to just forget all the guff and just blow, or just let it happen if you prefer. What I am concerned about is the over thinking and forgetting the simple fact we are putting air through a tube, all be it a resonant one.
     
  2. Dr.Mark

    Dr.Mark Mezzo Forte User

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    Hi rowuk,
    You stated:
    "The problem is, with MOST trumpet players playing, the foundation is so screwed up, that updating only makes things worse.
    ---
    Oh my yes!!! Talk about a clear example of lipstick on a pig!
    This site needs something to help with this.
    ---
    The brainless focus on a couple of easy "targets" like better mouthpiece, embouchure, aperature, and drag down every "weak" player looking for help. They repost within hours/days with fantastic results and then disappear when the novelty wears off. I have often though about renaming this part of the forum GULLIBLES TRAVELS.
    ---
    I call these people "The Silver Bullet Boys"
    Possibly develop a repository of chronological info to assist the people that have no personal instruction?
    What do you think? We know that personal instruction can be good or very bad. Possibly the info that can be supplied from this site (without asking for it) can be developed in a way that assists the person based on their developmental stage..
    Dr.Mark
     
  3. kingtrumpet

    kingtrumpet Utimate User

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    unlike the "more sophisticated" answers you get from the noteworthy pros on this site. I must conjecture that you are "overthinking" a lot of this --- if you had an F an octave above the staff a few weeks ago ---- then you are CAPABLE of that note. This does not mean, you can play it everyday, or in tune, or in rhythm at will at any particular moment. TO me it means you are capable --- as to which point you will be able to play actual songs at that level is actually IRRELEVANT. Meaning, you have to be patient and work consistently toward that goal (if that is indeed your goal) ----- all the tweaking, twaining, and great advice is also somewhat meaningless --- as ultimately you have to understand your body, your limitations, and "how much" rest you need. This is kind of like sports (which according to your profile) you participate in ----- you can't run a marathon everyday, and also if you run a few miles, and then attempt to shoot targets with your gun -- you must realize, that after running those few miles, EVERYTHING (breathing, pulse, nerves, ) has changed by the act of running -- all of which affects your accuracy in shooting a gun or a basketball jump shot, or a fly ball over the left field fence ----------------------------------------------- just my 2 cents, but your are welcome for this. have a great day
     
  4. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    Hi Mark,

    I have often thought about writing the basics down and making them read only and sticky. The problem is no one wants the truth. If any of these embouchure/aperature questions were accompanied by a little googling, the answers are ALREADY ALL THERE.

    If my throat is closing off - why should I work on my body use, breathing? Even worse are the experts with the real crap advice that sustain these myths. I prefer to answer each request and see what happens. Usually NOTHING happens because the answers given do not fit in the posters perception of what is wrong.

    Until the people that visit here place PROCESS in front of BAND-AID (current members often included), I have no solution. I have zero confidence in virtual development.
     
  5. Sethoflagos

    Sethoflagos Utimate User

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    This would be really useful. It took me ages searching this site for your 'Circle of Breath' explanation in a fairly complete form.

    I believe this to be manifestly untrue. It's easy to mistake healthy scepticism for disbelief.

    Hidden amongst a shedfull of dross.


    But some of us have been quietly sat playing $%^&*! hymn tunes for weeks on end wondering whether it's time to bother you for what comes next. Is this part of your "NOTHING"?

    Not everyone who visits will even understand the distinction you are making here. A "repository of chronological info to assist the people that have no personal instruction" may help people understand what you mean by "PROCESS". Perhaps you're right, and next to nobody will gain anything from it. But how many successes would it take to make the venture worthwhile? 1,000? 100? 10?......1?
     
  6. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    Those that are really interested can PM anyone that they trust. Generally we are all receptive to those that ask.

    1) The circle of breath gets buried every time that I post it (probably about 20 times since 2006). I have ZERO feedback from Trumpetmaster about anyone who has ever successfully implemented it in the 8 years that I have been here. I do have a lot of private students amateur and professional who prove the merit weekly ( for the last40 years to be a bit more precise)however.
    2) This is an "open forum", dross is part of the territory
    3) If we (you and I for instance) have no declared student-teacher relationship, am I supposed to feel bad for all of those who play "Hymntunes" for ages and haven't figured out that almost everything that we need can be found there? Am I obligated to write everything down that I feel is important - knowing that most still have no idea why - even if I tell them? It is NOT an intellectual process although no one wants to believe that.
    4) When did I ever say that there is a chronology? Do you think that someone who has been doing something wrong for a day, month, year, decade, century all can be saved by some magic that I possess? Is the recipe for those use cases even the same? What about the hot shot vs the confused - do you think I teach them both the same things? It is far easier to get a beginner up to speed than someone who already has "habits"
    5) is there ANY improvement of the chances for success by reading something on a forum?
    6) how many successes worthwhile for whom? Who here owes anyone else anything?
    7) I hope no one gets the strange idea simply because that they have read what I write here that they become better players or teachers because they have some special technique that I use. My technique is personally experience each my students and connect playing to life. I know what turns them on and off. I know the weaknesses physical and psychological. I help them leverage strengths and tune up weaknesses.

    I think that I generally post clearly. Everything about the body, mind and soul is connected. I teach integration not intervals, scales and slurs. Far more accomplished authors have the finest methods conceivable already published. All of my students use Arban and Clarke first and other stuff like the Irons Lip Flexibility studies as necessary. Each student moves on when they "GET" the concept of the previous lesson(s) in context. That can take minutes, or sometimes months. That is why tunes are such a big part of what I teach. If there is integration stagnation, we can still have fun with tunes - and build repertory at the same time. It also allows other steps to take time if necessary - without frustration.

    There is no chronology, there is no self help method. There is a process that helps us guide ourselves and discover small steps everywhere. I do not offer "remote" lessons in any form.

    If there are others who are "successful" in ventures like this, more power too them.

    My greatest fear is the solution looking for a problem to happen. About half of the total posts here qualify - essentially 100% of embouchure posts too
     
  7. Sethoflagos

    Sethoflagos Utimate User

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    Fair enough
     
  8. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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  9. jtpowell

    jtpowell Pianissimo User

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    Let's have it. As far as what is true is concerned. Let it not be said it was not followed because you didn't state it. I started as a new student, late 30s, 3 years ago. I don't have time to do it wrong. Looking forward to your post.
     
  10. Hugh Anderson

    Hugh Anderson Pianissimo User

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    Bring the lips towards the mouthpiece, raise the corners.
     

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