Tighten the Corners/Aperture/General Embouchure Struggles

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by neal085, Feb 21, 2014.

  1. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    no NO NO

    Do not do this! Every embouchure is different. Raising the corners for many embouchures is instant DEATH. Something as ill defined as "bringing the lips to the mouthpiece" is also asking for trouble. The problem is almost NEVER the embouchure anyway. The embouchure is usually a symptom of crappy breathing and body use.
     
  2. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    JT,

    You started 3 years ago. What steps have YOU taken to make sure that they are productive? Have they been? You claim that you have no time to do it wrong. I work with retired players and can increase their enjoyment too. You have plenty of time. Did you even read my last 2 posts #16 and #18. There is a lot of applicable info in them.....

    What do you expect from me? I treat every player that I work with as individually as a psychologist or physical therapist (sometimes a surgeon)would. My private students deserve no less.


    I am pretty convinced that very few ever really think about why some of us are here. Sometimes I get the impression that they expect 24/7 free lessons with a money back guarantee if something goes wrong.

    0) I enjoy pointing out the obvious - that is missed by most
    1) I enjoy the company of selected members here (the group is bigger than most think but there are enough that think that they belong when they do not).
    2) I enjoy putting a spotlight on BULLSHIT. When I do, there is more than enough content to search for related info! No hit and run by me.
    3) I do not enjoy people looking for a downloadable solution for a screwed up human state (it doesn't exist).
    4) I do not enjoy cyberchondria.
    5) I do not enjoy senseless blogging.
    6) I stopped spoon feeding my own kids once they were able to navigate themselves. I never spoon feed students, acquaintances or people that I do not know.

    If you think that I have general answers applicable to your situation, then search for my posts here and glean what you can (there should be something useful in 12,446 posts). If you really believe that over the internet, with no personal contact with me, that you can use what I teach, then I guess you believe something that I know does not work. I am convinced that the web has more potential for damage than it can help. The saving grace is that few have the staying power to run with some of the ridiculous stuff that is posted. That means that damage control happens by default. Unfortunately, the good stuff is equally treated and that is why I have NO INTEREST.
     
    Cornyandy likes this.
  3. Cornyandy

    Cornyandy Fortissimo User

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    Rowuk, I might have disagreed with you on one point earlier in this thread but you are bang on here, could I suggest that it should become a dictum on here that we don't give embouchure advice. I have only once given direct embouchure advice to another member and that was after watching a number of his video clips and his minor issue was so glaringly obvious I felt able to help him. This sort of advice (from Hugh Anderson) is so foolish that is beggars belief.
     
  4. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    Andy,

    this is an open internet forum. Those that know better, know better, those that don't, well generally don't stick with any advice, much less internet advice. Hughs suggestion is very typical for those that copy/paste with little personal knowledge or respect for the person that just may screw themselves up.

    No one has to agree with me. I work with what I have and it has been good for me and my students.
     
  5. EdMann

    EdMann Mezzo Forte User

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    The only embouchure advise that worked for me was to relaaaaax. Making your embouchure do what your breath can do may not be obvious, but it's foolhardy. I think we all still have days when the lips are shot from hours of banging away at the bandstand, but certainly less often if the focus is on the breath and not on the face.

    ed
     
  6. Cornyandy

    Cornyandy Fortissimo User

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    I see where you are coming from Rowuk, it might be a Utopian ideal that embouchure advice should not really be given but when there are so many seeking a silver bullet as Dr Mark puts it and so many pocket theorists in one place it ain't gonna happen. Thanks for responding to me though.
     
  7. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    Andy,

    the best embouchure advice is to get breathing and body use in order. The rest happens by evolution then.


    A man goes to the doctor and says, "Doctor, wherever I touch, it hurts."
    The doctor asks, "What do you mean?"
    The man says, "When I touch my shoulder, it really hurts. If I touch my knee - OUCH! When I touch my forehead, it really, really hurts."

    The doctor says, "I know what's wrong with you - you've broken your finger!"
     
  8. Hugh Anderson

    Hugh Anderson Pianissimo User

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    "Air keeps a dear school, but a fool will learn in no other." To paraphrase Ben Franklin
     
  9. Dr.Mark

    Dr.Mark Mezzo Forte User

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    Hi Hugh,
    You stated:
    "Bring the lips towards the mouthpiece, raise the corners."
    ---
    Oh my!!! I would not advise this methodology but I also believe in "trust but verify"
    Please go to Youtube and watch:
    Alison Balsom, Tine Helseth, Wynton Marsalis, John Thomas, Doc Severensen. Notice carefully how they use their lips in various registers. You won't see one smile-type embrochure. The method you are talking about (smile-type) if memory serves me right was taught many years ago (and unfortunately is still taught by the less informed) but here's the down side. It is generally considered a way less than optimum method. A person can go further down the musical road with the method that's been established for over 50 years than with the more archaic smile-type embrochure. But, as I suggest, do your homework and watch the youtubes. Whatever you decide I wish you the best of luck.
    Dr.Mark
     
  10. Hugh Anderson

    Hugh Anderson Pianissimo User

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    Bringing your lips to the mouthpiece is to keep you from smiling, it's to make you say oooh not eee.
     

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