Time for a valve job?

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by habitatchad, Apr 13, 2009.

  1. habitatchad

    habitatchad Pianissimo User

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    Aug 18, 2008
    Clinton, TN
    Below are some pictures of the valves from my '24 Elkhart. The first valve has begun to stick and the inside of the casing is shiny brass in a few spots dark everywhere else (couldn't get it to show up in a picture). I can force air past all three valves if i seal the bell and blow pretty hard. The local repair shop quoted me 220 plus tax for a replate of the valves and casings, refit, compression test, and alignment. That sounds lower than other quotes i have heard on here. The tech said he would have to send it off and it would take 4-6 weeks. Any thoughts?

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  2. milesd77

    milesd77 New Friend

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    Mar 21, 2009
  3. Bachstul

    Bachstul Mezzo Forte User

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    Time for a face lift. Find out what the estimator charges at an hourly rate. Do you suppose this is a four hour job, or longer? Brekfelew will be here, soon. He'll tell you.

    Sounds like a good estimate.

    Oh yea..you might get a better response if you post this in the VINTAGE category board.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2009
  4. s.coomer

    s.coomer Forte User

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    Indianapolis, In
    Ask your techncian where he is sending it. I agree that Anderson Plating is probably the best.
     
  5. bagmangood

    bagmangood Forte User

    Dr Valve?
     
  6. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    There is no way that we can comment on the quality of your local tech. Proper prepping before and lapping after plating are the key things to this being successful. Support your local techs any time that is possible. They are then there when you really need them. I need mine for me and my students on a regular basis. Instead of having to send a horn out for a repair, they handle it on the spot - saving us a whole week without the instrument. Plating does take longer, I would still support the local if they have a decent record. That is worth MUCH more than saving 5 or 10% long distance!
     
  7. habitatchad

    habitatchad Pianissimo User

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    Aug 18, 2008
    Clinton, TN
    I finally got together with my regular tech (he is hard to catch). My problem is the BiNaK apparently does not like the metal that my valve casing is made of and has made some thick black tarnish which is causing the valves to stick. The increased friction is too much for the vintage springs (maybe oem) to handle. He sold me some new springs for 5 bucks and told me to switch to Hetmans. He told me to get the #2 and classic and try both and a combination of the two to see what worked the best. He said the hetmans will act as a detergent and clean the tarnish out but i need to wipe the valves and reoil everytime I play until its clean. He thinks I have several years of playing left before I need a valve job.
     
  8. A.N.A. Mendez

    A.N.A. Mendez Utimate User

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    Sunny Ca.
    NO WAY! That looks good for another 100,000 miles!
    seriously, get a tech to send it out, adjustments are needed after Andersons.....
     
  9. Rushtucky

    Rushtucky Pianissimo User

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    Sep 15, 2008
    Indianapolis, Indiana
    Last resort...not recommended for those that do not know their way around instruments.
    In other words, EXTREME caution is advised on the following instructions that I am about to give. At the end is an exerpt from the manufacturers of the Magic Valve product which I have used successfully.

    ***Once again...extreme caution must be used when doing this procedure!!!!***

    First, get some Tarnex metal cleaner and GENTLELY work the valves to try to get the black stain off. This is going to take some time. Tarnex does not have any abrasive material in it. DO NOT use Brasso or any other brass cleaner!!!

    Now for the delicate part...use Trumpet Magic Valve on your valves. This is a 13 step process that I have used on older trumpets with sticky valves with success. On step 14, instead of using a towel, use a micro cloth.

    Be sure to rinse throughly the valves and valve casings. Use a mouthpiece brush to get all of the residue out of the valve holes. I recommend using Liquid Green after the process and using a valve brush vigorously through the casings. RINSE THROUGHLY!

    When you have finished the process, use Hagerty's Silversmith's Polish to bring (hopefully) the shining luster back to the valves. Rinse again and wipe down with a micro cloth.

    Install your valve caps, felts/bumpers, oil liberally. Replace the valves in their correct order and hopefully your problem will be resolved.

    **It is important to follow the instructions to the letter and not deviate from them.**

    I will most likely get "tarred and feathered" after this message, but I have done this before and it works using Trumpet Magic Valve. HOWEVER IT IS NOT A SUBSTITUTE FOR A PROFESSIONAL VALVE JOB OF SEVERLY DAMAGED VALVES. Only a quick fix for neglected or tarnished valves.

    Below is a complete description of the product by the manufacturer:

    (Please except my apologies for not explaining to you that Magic Valve "does not contain PUMUS".)

    You see typical professional lapping materials contains PUMUS. If used too much or often, or used by an untrained person, it can be very detrimental to piston and casing surfaces. Why? Because PUMUS does not break down when under pressure, it removes metal between two tight fitting areas of the piston and casing surfaces, thus doing its job allowing the piston to move freely by removing the tight/high spots. Which of course if used incorrectly will lead to loose leaking valves.

    The major difference is Magic Valve, "does not contain Pumus". Instead it contains a secret formula that is just strong enough to remove hardened bacteria and oil, but will break down long before it can damage any delicate metal surfaces. My partner and I developed this formula back in the late 70's to restore rare Porsche German engines where we had to clean irreplaceable pistons and delicate engine parts with Magic Valve with out any damage. At that time I was also a Road-Race motorcycle engine specialist where I had to remove hardened carbonized oil ring blow-by, off very expensive, exotic
    metal race pistons, also with out any damage.

    Incredibly, a trumpet piston is nearly identical to a 2 stroke motorcycle piston, the big difference is that a trumpet piston is actually harder then a Porsche or motorcycle piston, so Magic Valve is very safe indeed.

    The bottom line is this, yes lapping instruments as we known it is bad, but lapping with Magic Valve and Magic Slide, is Safe and Non Detrimental to instruments, even if it is used often. This is exactly why we avoid saying the word "LAPPING" and you will not find that word anywhere in our instructions.

    We would have never marketed MAGIC VALVE products as DIY-(Do It Your Self) if we knew it was not Consumer Safe and Friendly, or Detrimental to instruments.


    I hope that this helps. Let me know how it works out for you. Feel free to contact me if you have any questions.
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2009
  10. Bob Grier

    Bob Grier Forte User

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    Greensboro, NC
    Try wiggling the valves in the casing. If they move in the casing it's time for a valve job. use a reputable shop like Osmun Brass.
     

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