Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by xjb0906, Jul 29, 2011.

  1. GreenFrogJelly

    GreenFrogJelly New Friend

    Jul 19, 2011
    New York
    What helped me the most was singing and conducting music. I've also had gotten great results from tapping the beat of the music I'm working on while speaking the rhythm on a a single syllable (like 'ta'). You can do any of this with or without a metronome (or use the metronome periodically as a guide). Trying to find a fun way to work on time can also stretch the mind some and be...fun.

    Time, like sound, intonation, style, etc., is just one more piece of the whole picture and absolutely it can be improved. It's a lot like being in a play - when do you say your lines and how quickly? It may help to simplify the process for yourself somehow so that it doesn't appear mysterious.
  2. xjb0906

    xjb0906 Piano User

    May 2, 2009
    Charlotte NC
  3. Peter McNeill

    Peter McNeill Utimate User

    Jan 30, 2009
    Melbourne Australia
    Hi xjb0906,

    If I understand you correctly you can play along pretty well from memorised parts, but your reading skills let you down in a group. Can I suggest that you count rests and beats. The music and fingering get worked on with scales and Arbans exercises. So assuming that your fingerings are OK and you can play the scales you mentioned, it should be up to speed, keep using Arbans to get the combinations correct.

    One item I would check is you eye-sight. I found out in my 40s that I had astigmatism, and needed glasses to correct my vision. Had it all my life, never noticed a problem. My sight-reading was poor, I would guess some notes as at speed as the lines blurred a bit. If I slowed right down the reading was OK, I could play freely from memorised parts, had a fair ear to play by ear, but reading was never quite right.

    After getting glasses (Not Bifocals - that can cause issues with trumpet playing if you need the focals to focus on the music - so get music glasses/reading glasses), my glasses are good to about 3 metres, and my reading accuracy improved. Count rests and use the Metronome to play in time. Reading rests is so important to maintain timing. I suggest that where you have a difficult part, break the bar down with beat marks, so you can move along with the music.

    Try to spend some time with a teacher just to focus on sight-reading. There is plenty in the Arbans to keep you going. So glasses, metronome, Arbans & pencil and teacher.

    Hope it helps.
  4. gmonady

    gmonady Utimate User

    Jan 28, 2011
    Dayton, Ohio
    I want to start by first agreeing with the post that you need a good teacher.

    Now about the piano player confusing your sense of time. If this is the case, then key in to the drummer (as one individual mentioned) or the bass. The one that is laying down the most solid rhythm (in my band it's the bass player most of the time), is who I key into as the leader. To keep improvisation on task a leader must be present.

    Now the piano player should not be ignored, you want to key in on him to provide you the color palette to which you can harmonize. Ignoring that texture is to play in black and white. Great pianists are challenging [definitely I mean this in a good way] in that they will throw in some re-harmonizing for you. If you pick it up, and you choose to follow that harmony it will take you in a different direction, dig! It will keep you fresh, and keep you talking to others in the ensemble, while your rhythm master continues to key in the rhythms in your head.

    Develop the listening skills to do this and you are well on your way to mastering jazz. If you can convert the listening skills to actually hear the ensemble, then you have arrived.
  5. Vulgano Brother

    Vulgano Brother Moderator Staff Member

    Mar 23, 2006
    Parts Unknown
    The metronome is an unforgiving teacher, and I've broken several throwing them against walls (and it felt good, each time)! What helped most beyond the metronome was playing in a funk band in my college days--the horn section was forced to subdivide and conquer, and being able to master Tower of Power charts back then made Stravinsky a lot easier later on. Plus, we got to meet a lot of girls.

    You might want to try thinking of a quarter note as being four sixteenth notes tied together; in a swing situation analyse to see if it is a 2+1 or a 3+2 combination of eighth notes that the rhythm section lays down.

    Don't forget though, while it is our duty to fit in, that the trumpet is a lead instrument, and we can nudge things, when needed, the right way.
  6. xjb0906

    xjb0906 Piano User

    May 2, 2009
    Charlotte NC
    I have more problems with just piano accompaniment . The ensemble playing is a challenge but not nearly as much as playing with just accompaniment. I think having the percussion section helps me.

    And yes I do need a good teacher. I just have to work out the money thing to make that happen.
  7. tedh1951

    tedh1951 Utimate User

    Oct 18, 2007
    The Wide Brown Land
    I have, and continue to, struggle with this element of my playing. As I improve and begin to feel the music, rather than concentrating so hard on hearing the music and playing the exact notes, I then find my timing falls neatly into place.

    You might just be trying too hard.

    I know this sounds simple, but try to relax into the music and feel the piece if you can - the rest will flow, the timing is a sense not just a arithmetic progression. Forget the maths a bit and live the music. A wrong note is better than a late note.:shock:
  8. Vulgano Brother

    Vulgano Brother Moderator Staff Member

    Mar 23, 2006
    Parts Unknown
    Its better to be sharp than out of tune, too. ;-)
  9. Al Innella

    Al Innella Forte User

    Aug 9, 2007
    Levittown , NY
    I agree with Branson. Play along with recordings (CD's), I don't know if they're still available, but they used to have Music Minus One records, where the entire ensemble was recorded minus your part. If Music Minus One no longer exists, playing along with recorded trumpet parts will also help.
  10. Haste2

    Haste2 Piano User

    Jun 16, 2010
    My situation is unique in that accompaniment and ensemble playing does nothing but worsen my ability to keep time. It's like, when I specifically try to be with the ensemble, I lose my rhythm b/c I worry if I play it exactly how I feel (in my own world), I will be off from everyone else.

    My college jazz band director and section leader would sometimes get mad at me for not being with the group. But, one time my band leader made a requirement for each band member to meet with him in person to be tutored. And then he said, "whoa, you have a good sense of rhythm." :D :dontknow:

    Any advice? Maybe playing along with recordings will help?

Share This Page