Tone Quality

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by Trumpet Dreamer, Aug 24, 2010.

  1. Moshe Mizrachi

    Moshe Mizrachi Pianissimo User

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    Feb 17, 2010
    If the choice of mouthpiece is irrelevant to the tone color that is produced, then why do British Brass Bands and Salvation Army Bands encourage the use of extremely deep mouthpieces like a Wick 2?
    Why do they torture themselves with mouthpieces that make the upper register so difficult?

    Because a player's tone color is completely different when using Schilke 6A4A versus a Wick 2 is such common knowledge in the experience of all players,
    I am really amazed that we are even having this bizarre conversation.

    The original poster simply needs to know that
    the choice of mouthpiece
    and the choice of trumpet / cornet
    and the player's technique
    are all contributing factors in the tone color that is produced.

    The original poster asked to what degree each is a factor,
    but all 3 are factors to some degree,
    although we might disagree on to what degree for each of the 3 factors.

    No more for me to say on the subject, so I'm out of this thread...
     
  2. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    Moshe,
    nobody said that the mouthpiece doesn't matter, we said that just about any mouthpiece can get the results. This is not by eliminating fundementals or harmonics, it is by turning the brain on while playing to get the best musical results. This results in a blend and elegance that supports a "section sound". perhaps players without any tonal concept can be made less destructive with extreme hardware, that can't be the final goal of a musical ensemble however.

    If you continue to refuse to accept how a trumpet really works (which is not by elimination, rather by forcing more wavelengths into the tube), you will never figure out how a shallower mouthpiece can still get acceptable results - even with a british brass band.

    The original poster is a beginner and none of this will apply for another year or so anyway. With beginners chops, the sound is still over 98% the player - just like with a pro.
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2010
  3. schleiman

    schleiman Piano User

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    May 12, 2010
    Austin, TX
    Hmmmm...interesting point.
     
  4. Darten

    Darten Mezzo Piano User

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    Dec 21, 2009
    New York City
    I play a cornet, and use a Bach 3 mouthpiece, my low and mid range feels warm and thick, like a blanket, but when I start scrapping around high C, it seems more like someone torturing a pig, then playing a horn. But then again, some people like the sounds of tortured live stock.
     
  5. Alex_C

    Alex_C Piano User

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    May 30, 2010
    Gilroy, California
    Err, middle C is that one below the staff ... you mean middle-of-staff C?

    If you really had lousy tone above middle C then ..... take up the euphonium hehe
     
  6. Moshe Mizrachi

    Moshe Mizrachi Pianissimo User

    185
    6
    Feb 17, 2010
    Unless you can cite even one British Band player or Salvation Army player who uses a Schilke 6A4A or similar mouthpiece, your assertions above are completely impractical and should not be offered as advice to young impressionable players here.

    There is a reason that British Band players and Salvation Army players use Wick-type mouthpieces.
    Deep cups and open throats encourage the proper tone quality for that type of music.

    There is a reason that the OP gets a bright tone with a Bach 3C.
    The Bach 3C mouthpiece is shallow.

    The OP asked how much the mouthpiece affects tone.
    The correct answer is: a lot

    A player should use proper technique for achieving best tone,
    but it is ridiculous for a player to use a cup that is too shallow or too deep and then try to use his embouchure to wrestle the desired tone out of the wrong mouthpiece.

    I'm gonna take a 2 week vacation from TM.
    These bizarre conversations are just too frustrating...
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2010
  7. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    Moshe, you would not be frustrated if you didn't try to reinvent the physics of the trumpet/cornet. Deep cups and open throats for many players (especially beginners) destroys their endurance and gives them a very "dull" sound because of the low efficiency. Other players with naturally "bright" sounds can tone them down with hardware IF they have the routine and endurance to compensate.

    I do not need to cite anything. I have been successfully playing for 40 years and teaching for over 30. I am familiar with all of the extremes and that is why I have a defined stand against generalities as you propose. There are simply too many factors from diaphragm to bell and between the ears that cannot and should not be reduced to any simple formula.

    By the way, the thread owner said NOTHING about brass band. They did ask about the proportion of sound change based on horn or mouthpiece. Keehun pointed TD in the right general direction - do not solve software problems with hardware - fix your playing first before blaming the horn or mouthpiece. What TD read on "anoTHer forum is just plain BS.
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2010

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