Tongue Controlled Embouchure (TCE)

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by john7401, Jul 15, 2009.

  1. john7401

    john7401 Pianissimo User

    Jul 3, 2009
    I know some of you may disagree with the idea of changing embouchure's but it would be nice if I could learn this one as it would let me practice lots more then with the one I have now where my lips are gone after a good while of playing. Either way I have searched and searched for info on how to produce and use this embouchure but I cannot find much more other than you use the spot on your tongue about and inch from the tip for tonguing while the tip of the tongue rests on the lower lip.

    I asked my band teacher about it Tuesday and he said he had never even heard of it!

    If anyone can give me any more information on how to use this or has personal expirience or recommendations as to how to learn it please post.
  2. poetofsound

    poetofsound Pianissimo User

    Jan 4, 2009
    what kind of embouchure do you have now
  3. NYTC

    NYTC Forte User

    Nov 1, 2004
  4. bagmangood

    bagmangood Forte User

    To change your embouchure, you definitely need to work with a teacher (and if you want TCE, one of that method)
    There is no way you could learn through a trumpet forum, but if there isn't one in your area then the skype lessons would work
  5. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

    Jun 18, 2006
    I don't know why you pick TCE over any other method, the odds of success are no greater or worse.

    I have found the best embouchure changes (and after over 30 years of teaching and only 3 exceptions) the ones that happen WITHOUT even thinking about them. A balanced diet of breathing exercizes, long tones and slurs CAN move your breathing, face muscles and tongue into sync without needing to declare a day X where you take a BIG step backwards before things get better.

    Anybody that practices properly goes through a minute embouchure change almost daily. What our playing style doesn't change, age will.

    The art of playing well requires the body soul, ears and mind to be in sync. Only when that doesn't work, do I recommend a face lift or lip service.
  6. Vulgano Brother

    Vulgano Brother Moderator Staff Member

    Mar 23, 2006
    Parts Unknown
    In other words, evolution is better than revolution. If pursuing all the elements of musical technique lead you to a TCE, fine, but your goal should be a john7401CE.
  7. john7401

    john7401 Pianissimo User

    Jul 3, 2009
    "I don't know why you pick TCE over any other method, the odds of success are no greater or worse"

    Yes, however I feel that if I could use this embouchure I would be able to practice alot longer without my lips wearing out and would still be able to keep my range after that while too.

    "what kind of embouchure do you have now"

    I'm not sure, it's kind of in the middle of a smile technique and tightening of the center or my lips. I play slightly off to the side and use more top lip then bottom. Tongue rests after the note comes out.
  8. poetofsound

    poetofsound Pianissimo User

    Jan 4, 2009
    Do what works best for you. Usually what feels natural (after having instruction from a teacher) works the best. If you are worried about range then try some exercises, but if you focus on practicing trumpet daily then range should come. I never work on range. Just good solid playing.
  9. svburns

    svburns New Friend

    Oct 26, 2008
    This is the same embouchure that HL Clarke advocated and the great Bebop of the 50's used with dramatically different results. TCE is a misnomer and should be approached with a musical, systematic approach: The sound in one's mind controls the sound of one's horn. One way to work on it is with variations on slurs in groups of 4, 3, and 2 notes gradually increasing speed. Both T and K should be practiced in this way minimizing the forward and back motion and emphasizing the quick, compact, vertical motion.

    Check out Chris Gekker's book... he doesn't call it TCE, but fundamentally it is.

    p.s. Anchor tongue is a misnomer; don't anchor just relax an minimize movement

  10. fraserhutch

    fraserhutch Mezzo Piano User

    Jan 23, 2004
    Novato, CA, USA
    Sorry, not be argumentative, but I believe anchor tongue is exactly what it says it is. Maybe it's not the way you do it or perhaps teach it, but the way I learnt from my teachers long ago (the first was a Claude Gordon student himself) is to anchor the tongue to the bottom of my front teeth where they meet the gums.

    I do wonder if the point is the same - seems to me that they way I do it also minimizes forward'/backward movement, so perhaps the differences are subtle.

    Last edited: Dec 3, 2010

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