Tongue Controlled Embouchure (TCE)

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by john7401, Jul 15, 2009.

  1. svburns

    svburns New Friend

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    You're right. It is semantics, but most players who go to anchor tongue from another manner end up creating too much tension by pushing the tongue against the lower teeth causing a slower, tighter tonguing motion.

    TCE position is slightly different than your descriptions of anchor tonguing. It actually is on top of the lower teeth with blade of the tongue striking the back of the upper teeth, releasing the air, rather than the tip striking the aperture, which alters the sound. Of course there are subtle variations in this action depending upon register and dynamic. Below the staff the aperture does get a fair amount of contact.

    People get into trouble when their attention is focused on the body rather than the sound and the music they are playing.
     
  2. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    The truth has been presented. Why argue? If someone wants to change their chops the way they perceive reality, let them. If they get lucky great, if not, the warning has been issued.

    What really interests me is how players think that a certain technique will universally rescue some aspect of playing (or actually anything else). I guess the marketing people for TCE have been doing a good job.
     
  3. Markie

    Markie Forte User

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    Hi John,
    Type in Arch Tongue and Hiss. I think you'll find what you're looking for.
     
  4. Al Innella

    Al Innella Forte User

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    The marketing people for TCE must be really,really good, they even have Herbert L. Clarke saying that's the way he tongues. Why would any one discourage any body from doing something they should have been doing from the beginning?
     
  5. Jerry Freedman

    Jerry Freedman Piano User

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    I don't think that TCE tonguing is the same as anchor tonguing which Clarke talked about and Gordon pushed for years. Lots of Gordon students have been anchor tonguing ( also called modified K tonguing) very successfully for many, many years. TCE ( now called MSC BTW) is something new from Callet who claims its not discovered by him but really rediscovered.
     
  6. svburns

    svburns New Friend

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    You can touch on one end and call it a snake. Hold the other end and think it's a twig. Wrap your arms around another part and swear it's a tree, while the 4th blind feels the tobacco leaf drying above in the sun. Sniff and you know what it is.
     
  7. john7401

    john7401 Pianissimo User

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    Jul 3, 2009
    This isn't something I''m particularly interested in anymore. This was back when I was obsessing over range and endurance and trying to find a "magic" fix. (I think it said July 5th last year?)

    Since then I've recently started a systematic approach to daily practice to get where I need to be. I haven't seen much improvement with it yet, but I have faith in it. Until I get some $ and hook up with someone really good for lessons, its the best shot I have. And it is pretty in depth "system" to where it should be accomplish able through this book unless there is some major flaw in my playing, but none has caught my, or some teachers attentions.

    Now all I really want to do is find the smoothest, richest tone I can. because

    Multiple pros say with good tone everything else falls into place / tone quality should be the central focus for being good at your instrument, ect.

    IMO, tone is one of the biggest factors of what emotion is portrayed through playing, and that's what playing is all about in the end.

    Good tone quality is necessary for people to want to listen to you, but on a more broad scale, the better the tone quality, the more people will want to listen to you. (which ties into emotion again.)

    Just some quick thoughts from my head before I have to get back to doing what I was doing. Thanks for support guys.
     
  8. svburns

    svburns New Friend

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    Chicago
    Your sound is the ultimate teacher. Just remember you have to make that sound through every register, dynamic, and articulation while your are playing melodies, fanfares, scales, arpeggios, intervals, flexes, and every thorny fingering combo. When you get there you'll find that you are already in the perfect embouchure/tongue/air position.

    Enjoy the ride!
    s
     
  9. trumpetsplus

    trumpetsplus Fortissimo User

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    A quote from my blog:
    Your sound is your greatest asset.

    If you have a good sound, people will want to listen to you – No matter what you play.

    If you do not have a good sound, nobody will want to listen to you – No matter what you play!
     
  10. Dark Knight

    Dark Knight Pianissimo User

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    Apr 7, 2010
    Canada
    OK. I have a completely different view. You say that you are interested in TCE so that you can play longer and gain endurance. I would suggest not changing your embrochure unless it is broken.

    So, if you want to practice longer, then you might want to follow the advice of many given here on TM. Control your volume and play softly. Your corners will burn and your lips will stay fresher for a longer period of time. It is great. I have been trying this lately with good results. Another solution is to break your practice times up into smaller chuncks. Even the pros practice only 20 to 30 minutes at time. The smaller time chunks allow for great focus and they always practice with fresh lips. Rest as much as you play both within and between sessions. Playing fatiugued allows for bad habits to creep into permanence.

    Best Wishes,

    DK
     

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