Tongue level for high notes

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by x9ret, Jun 3, 2014.

  1. Vulgano Brother

    Vulgano Brother Moderator Staff Member

    Mar 23, 2006
    Parts Unknown
    Playing second or third trumpet in a symphonic setting requires some pretty low and loud playing. Three sounds are required--quasi trombone, quasi horn and trumpet as well as complete control over dynamics. In order to get a matched section sound the lower parts need to be louder than the principal, which adds to the fun factor of playing low notes.

    The Vulgano part in an early Baroque five-part trumpet ensemble consists of a g below the staff. Better than rum for head-rushes and cheap, too.
  2. gbdeamer

    gbdeamer Forte User

    Oct 16, 2008
    I don't think anyone promotes or suggests going on a "wild goose chase" or sacrificing low register sound. I definitely never said or implied that. And I personally don't throwing anything around loosely, so if you've been in front of me on a gig and have some specific feedback I'd be more than happy to hear it.

    Generally speaking I think there is an evolution when people begin to play the trumpet. The low and middle registers are FAR more accessible to beginners, so that's where they spend their initial development (years typically) practicing. As chops (and players) mature they are able to grow their range and play a wider variety of music.

    From there, there are people who are drawn to certain types of music and want to play it. In the example of big band lead parts, this regularly requires a degree of competency up to G above high C. For those who can't do it and want to learn, they seek out instruction. This doesn't mean everyone must do it in order to be a "good" trumpet player, it just means that people are drawn to and WANT to do it.

    Just like symphonic, jazz, SKA, etc, players (with a solid foundation) look for help when specializing.

    I'm glad you're one of those who is happy with his sound!! I constantly work on mine (in all registers) to make sure that it's the best I can make it.
  3. gbdeamer

    gbdeamer Forte User

    Oct 16, 2008
    I'm with you VB.

    My point was that the low range is much more accessible. It's "easier" to spend time working on improving something that you already do (playing in the lower register) than something you can't.

    I have a strong command of low G and F#, so it would be easier for me to get to the required tone needed for the symphony piece you mentioned than it would be for me to play the D above Double C that Roger Ingram plays on several recordings. In that case it would be impossible for me to improve on something I ain't got!!
  4. Sethoflagos

    Sethoflagos Utimate User

    Aug 7, 2013
    Lagos, Nigeria
    A bit preachy. I had a very strong E above high C when I was 12. I've swapped parts too often with 3rd trumpet when they didn't have the poke to cope to be taken in by your claim that the low register is easy. Are you really sure you have anything useful to tell me here? Or is this just a p**sing contest?
  5. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

    Jun 18, 2006
    Actually, the consummate trumpeter needs it all. If lower tension is our primary goal (and there are a lot of compelling arguments for low tension), a stronger low register will help the upper register. The Earl Irons book uses lip slurs in a special way to develop chop muscle integration with breathing, tongue position and what we hear. All of the exercizes use the lowest partials during the slurs to teach contraction. This way we avoid building residual tension.
  6. nlebaron

    nlebaron New Friend

    Feb 11, 2009
    St. George, UT
    Hi rowuk, this is the second time in the past few pages I have seen you recommend the "Earl Irons" book. Is there a chance you could post a link to it?
  7. bumblebee

    bumblebee Fortissimo User

    Jan 21, 2010
    Great Southern Land
  8. nlebaron

    nlebaron New Friend

    Feb 11, 2009
    St. George, UT
  9. kingtrumpet

    kingtrumpet Utimate User

    Sep 20, 2009
    New York State USA
    cause to have a solid Low F#, and a G an octave above the one on top of the staff --- you need 1,000's of hours of practice ------------My band conductor (65 ish) and a trumpet player questioned my recent composition for band in that it had a few Low F#'s and Low G's, he claimed that "trumpet players can't always play the low F#" -- which I countered, "I can everyday, anyday, anytime - my trumpet is in the case now, do you need some reassurance of WHAT the trumpet can and can not do?" -------------------- a retired music teacher, he just replied ----"YES, BUT YOU PRACTICE THOSE NOTES" --------------------------

    --- relating to the post ---- I don't know what my tongue is doing, cause I am concentrating on playing solid, good sounding notes ---- I will try to determine what the tongue is doing, and get back to you on this --- thanks for bringing it to my attention though
  10. gbdeamer

    gbdeamer Forte User

    Oct 16, 2008
    Maybe there's a language barrier here.

    You made a post in a thread about developing the high register that essentially dismisses efforts that don't include instruction on low F# and low G.

    My original response was an attempt to illustrate why people may look for one but not the other.

    You countered that by implying that the effort (increasing range) was a wild goose chase and that I was taking liberty with some of my language.

    I then politely countered with an even more illustrative example to clarify my point (which you now label preachy) and tell me I'm having a p**sing contest, when that's what I've been trying to carefully avoid.

    To be honest I'm not quite sure why you're even posting in this thread. The OP created the thread to discuss playing above high C, and you seem to think that's folly.

    Good for you. I think it's fine that you don't see the value in expanding range above high C. There are PLENTY of pro players who make a great living there. So why post in the thread at all?

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