Tonguing

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by jdshankles, Feb 15, 2007.

  1. jdshankles

    jdshankles New Friend

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    Nov 28, 2005
    Rochester, MN
    Hey Manny,

    Recognizing that this may simply be something that I need to put some focused practice time into, I was wondering if you had any helpful hints on some tonguing problems.

    I am finding that I am have response issues in the middle of phrases but also when I breathe and begin playing again. I am getting a delay in the sound (sort of like T.....ahhh). I find that it is more the case on slower, legato playing.

    How do I know if it is a mouthpiece thing, a lip thing or a head thing?

    Thoughts?

    Thanks,
    --jD
     
  2. jdshankles

    jdshankles New Friend

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    Nov 28, 2005
    Rochester, MN
    Sorry didn't mean to post twice.
     
  3. Vulgano Brother

    Vulgano Brother Moderator Staff Member

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    This is real hard to diagnose based on the information you’ve given, but Vulgani are foolhardy enough to try. Response problems are sometimes caused by an aperture that is too big for the given note. Vulgano theory holds that the embouchure is synergetic, that it is formed both by the muscles and the air-stream, so that the vibrating surface will be relaxed, allowing the lips to vibrate. The aperture is blown into shape rather than held in shape. Excessive mouthpiece pressure can cause the lips to stay too far apart, as can tonguing that penetrates the lips. A couple of tests for the dreaded “spread embouchure†are the following:

    As we ascend into the upper register the notes should get progressively “weaker†as we approach our top note. If there is a sudden cutoff, say from a forte high c to no d at all, that is a sign that the aperture is too wide.

    We should be able to play a diminuendo down to nothing. It is hard to do, and requires some practice, but the ability to taper a tone down to nothingness is an extremely useful musical tool. The ability to play pppp requires some extreme responsiveness from the chops. Practicing diminuendos is one of the best ways to bring our chops back together, and is also useful for a warm down.

    That your response problems happen in the middle of phrases and after breaths suggest two possibilities:

    A) The middle of the phrase problem might be the result of pushing the lips out of form with your tongue.
    B) The after breath problem might be a case of not getting the lips back into position after breathing. Remember that we form the embouchure before adding the mouthpiece. You might want to experiment with breathing through your nose, and leaving the mouthpiece in place.

    Hopefully this will help. If not, Manny will be back soon, and perhaps you can provide the TM community with more symptoms. In the meantime, keep practicing. Have fun!
     
  4. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    JD,
    the mouthpiece is out of metal, nothing slow about that. The lips, if trained, speak when airflow of sufficient pressure is available. Many players do not take in enough air and play more "carefully" when slower or legato playing is required.
    The basics of good tone production are identical in fast staccato and slow legato passages. You need to be as aggressive in filling up regardless of the playing style. A positive attack also helps when playing softly. Legato just means no space between the notes, that sounds most convincing when there is clean articulation. Slow is not castrated long. Here great breath control is required to maintain the energy of the note!
    Perhaps best explained: if slow is just a weaker fast and legato is just a weaker form of tonguing, than the end result is just weaker........
     
  5. Fudleysmith

    Fudleysmith Pianissimo User

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    Jan 5, 2006
    Niantic, CT
    Rowuk,

    Bravo! That statement (coupled to your previous explanation) really 'clicked on the light' for me. Many thanks.

    Greg
     
  6. michael shanks

    michael shanks New Friend

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    Jan 12, 2007
    I'm just starting double and triple tounging Ineed some help I knowhow to preform it accurately but I'm having trouble keeping the same pace while going through the warm ups. Basically I'm trying to ask what can Ido to improve them both? See my instructor things Im doing pretty good but I have doubts about my abilitys. Thank you all for your help.
     
  7. Richard Oliver

    Richard Oliver Forte User

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    Michael, I'm looking forward to improving my tonguing too. Several years of dilligent practicing then a lifetime of dilligent practice, I'm hoping, will get the job done.

    All the Best,

    Richard
     
  8. trumpetnick

    trumpetnick Fortissimo User

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    Hey Guys,
    What happened to the polite thing (resident artist first)? Chuck?
     
  9. Vulgano Brother

    Vulgano Brother Moderator Staff Member

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    Please refer to the Away for a few days thread by Manny.
     
  10. Manny Laureano

    Manny Laureano Utimate User

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    JD,

    Your corners are too flat and aren't connected to the mouthpiece. It makes you play with too much pressure. Say "tooh" and allow the four points of contact that initiate vibration to work for you. The flowing breath will sustain the sound.

    Tooh and blow!

    ML
     

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