Tonguing

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by Satchmo Brecker, Nov 16, 2010.

  1. Satchmo Brecker

    Satchmo Brecker Piano User

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    Jul 19, 2010
    I've read the posts here about tongue position when tonguing but I guess I'm missing something. For me at least, the only natural placement seems to be the tip of my tongue touching between the lips, almost like a stopper stopping them from vibrating. But the sound sounds like you'd expect, kinda blop blop instead of crisp and clean. So on the one hand I think maybe I just need to practice more. On the other I think maybe I need to just hunker down and practice not touching the lips, but the spot between teeth and gums on top, which is very unnatural and cramped.

    Thoughts?
     
  2. s.coomer

    s.coomer Forte User

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    This is hard for someone to diagnose over the internet and you really need if serious find a good trumpet teacher to help you. Try saying too or tah or teeh with the tongue. The tongue is not a stopper like in a bottle.
     
  3. ottoa57

    ottoa57 Pianissimo User

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    we all have different size and tongue lenghts'...this is a huge subject...to my point...its not always the very very tip of the tongue that we use..it may fall back alittle behind of the front of your tongue. Saying the syllable tu or du will get you to not tongue between the teeth... This is a simple approach...I'm sure others' may expound much more.
     
  4. wolfmann

    wolfmann Pianissimo User

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    Aug 19, 2010
    So I guess you have seen the Tu-Ku stuff.
    With what you describe the problem you are having it can be many things.
    Pronunciation of words.
    Accent.
    Lazy Tongue.
    Try to say TOOOOOO
    In a trumpet players world the tip of your tongue should hit the top part of your upper teeth.
    When you say KUUUUU the back part of your tongue should curl and hit the back upper roof of your mouth.
    I myself had a lazy tongue.
    It takes a LOT of SLOW practice to change that.
    Dont rush it just try to make a clean crisp sound.
    Hold and center your tone with each TOOOOO.
    When you can do that,do it a few more thousand times,NOT a exaggeration,it takes a lot to erase a bad habit.
    Do the TOOOO first till you feel comfortable,then work on the KUUUUU.

    Hope this helps.
     
  5. Cornyandy

    Cornyandy Fortissimo User

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    East Yorkshire
    Hi Guys

    Sorry to sound the opposite view but natural tongue position is important and as long as it works so what. I tongue from varioius positions in my mouth depending on what I am playing and the feel I need for a particular sound

    Rowuk explained that In Germany tongueing through the teeth is accepted practice. (Have a look at the thread "Can I be thick) My articulation isn't causing me any problems though

    I think the best bet for you would be to try to get some one to diagnose waht is Causing the Blop Blop Sound in person.

    Hope this helps coz I'll probably get panned for going against form but there you are

    Cheers

    Andrew
     
  6. Markie

    Markie Forte User

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    Clarksburg, WV
    There are people that play like that. I don't recommend it:
    Try this:
    Record yourself playing quarter 8th and 16th notes tongued and listen to how you articulate the notes you play. My guess is that the articulation will be ragged, and a bit sloppy.
    The tip of the tongue should be touching the back of the upper front teeth.
    To get a feel for this, say "Ta". Notice where your tongue is.
    Now try it with the horn. When you do "Ta" when playing the horn, be sure not to say "Tat". Imagine that you are sending a constant stream of air through the horn and the only break in that stream is the tongue which stops the stream with the word "ta".
    Hope this helps
     
  7. tobylou8

    tobylou8 Utimate User

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    I used to do the same thing (stopper thing) and it does sound bad if a precise staccato is needed. You're on the right track with practicing more. Tonguing is like developing you range. The more you put into it, the better you'll become. I practice tonguing with my tongue tip "anchored" behind my bottom teeth and arching to close the airway. Practicing various syllables is good and will show you which syllables give you a cleaner sound or a more legato sound. I practice 16th triplets (tu-tu-ku) because I do play music that requires it. My tonguing used to stink but is now much improved.:thumbsup:
     
  8. oldenick

    oldenick Pianissimo User

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  9. tobylou8

    tobylou8 Utimate User

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    It's only a practice exercise to keep one from jamming the tip between the teeth. I don't play that way. It sounds like you have marbles in your mouth. The "T" sound can't be made w/o striking the roof of your mouth behind your teeth. Try it, it cannot be done. Arching your tongue "trains" the tip, when locked behind the bottom teeth, not to automatically go to the gap. It, for me, is about learning to control my tongue and retraining my thought process until proper tonguing is second nature.
     
  10. oldenick

    oldenick Pianissimo User

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