Transposing/conversion

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by Ed Lee, Feb 14, 2014.

  1. Branson

    Branson Piano User

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    If you were playing vocal music labeled high pitch it may have been a reference to a soprano vocal range.

    As to why your instrument sounded different may have been the use of sharps more often than flats. Trumpet players are so accustom to be playing in flats that sharps are less comfortable for us. Also, the added sharps tend to place more usage of our more out of tune notes such as C#.

    Early trombones many times in that period were available with regular tuning slides as well as an optional high pitch tuning slide. The reason for this was to give the player the ability to use slide vibrato in first position.
     
  2. Ed Lee

    Ed Lee Utimate User

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    As far as I know, the only piece of music I have that is labeled is Franz Schubert's Ave Maria that is marked "Low voice" with notes paralleling the organ score in the same key. I've yet to find any that is marked in high or low pitches, but I expect there is. I think more of it just was as was common to the era of its origin.
     
  3. kehaulani

    kehaulani Fortissimo User

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    Hawaian homey
    That's performance practice. I guess I'm having problems seeing how that connects to a problem regarding transposing from C instruments to Bb instruments.
     
  4. Vulgano Brother

    Vulgano Brother Moderator Staff Member

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  5. Ed Lee

    Ed Lee Utimate User

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    Kehaulani, I have absolutely no problem transposing from concert C music to Bb or to F, Eb, A, or G and conversely. I've been transposing to Bb from piano music of my Mother's and Grandmother's since I began playing ... there was a distinct shortage of all music during WWII.

    It's just when I get into music of an era earlier than the A=440 standard that the music sounds weird to me on any of the contemporary instruments I have. I was only 14 yo when Dr. Walter H. Cameron, our high school band director laid some music on my stand and asked me to play it, and I couldn't play it to sound right. It was a copy of the original scoring by the Czech Julius Fucik in 1857 of the Grande Marche Chromatique or what we know as Entry Of The Gladiators, now played when the Clowns enter the ring at the Ringling Bros - Barnum & Bailey Circus. Dr. Cameron, after leaving Sousa's 2nd band in 1931 when Sousa became very ill and gave up his band, had gone on to play with Ringling Brothers before they merged with Barnum & Bailey. Well, that was my first experience with the present conundrum. This incident happened just after I had been to the last performance of the Ringling Bros-Barnum & Bailey Circus under the canvas "Big Top" at the then Heidelberg Raceway in the town adjacent to my home town of Carnegie as is just 8 mi from Pittsburgh PA. Yes, I've the score arrangement he and our band made of it, and have played it since my comeback on multiple brass instruments. On my good days, I play it again following the briefest warm-up. Certainly gets the stiffness out of my fingers. It remains at the top of my "show-off" list.
     
  6. kehaulani

    kehaulani Fortissimo User

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    "What we have here is the failure to communicate."

    [​IMG]


    I'll try one more time. If it feels weird, that must be because it is incompatible with other performances of the same music with which you are comparing it. That is, how can it feel weird in a vacuum with no other frame of reference? Unless, of course, you are channeling from another time and dimension, in and of itself. :D

    I don't understand what models you are comparing it to that you had previously experienced.
     
  7. richtom

    richtom Forte User

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    Here, as written by a sax player, is a very fine definition of low/high pitch standards.
    Sax on the Web > Peter Hales > High Pitch vs. Low Pitch
    In most discussions we are referring to the actual voice definition - soprano, alto, tenor, and bass. A Schubert song originally written for a soprano (high voice) and transposed in a easier for a bass (low voice) would indicate such. The same song could put in a key easier for a mezzo-soprano would also say high voice.
    One can find old cornets and trumpets that are in low or high pitch standards. I believe this is what Mr. Lee is describing.
    RT
     
  8. kehaulani

    kehaulani Fortissimo User

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    Thanks for trying to clear this up. I appreciate it. But you folks have all (practically) gotten off on another side issue with musicological references. What I am asking is not what those references are or how it used to be. If Ed has never heard one of his grandmother's-era songs sung in a different tuning, then how can it seem weird to him when he just takes a simple song sheet and plays it? How can it sound weird unless it is incompatible with the same song heard in a different context?
     
  9. Ed Lee

    Ed Lee Utimate User

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    Sure I didn't listen to live performances of songs during my grandmother's era, but I certainly listened to a lot of Victor Talking Machine records on her Victrola and listened to her play them on her old parlor pump organ and a more modern piano and made much the same comment I'm now making, and my Mother also played a good many of them, but then she could play about equally as good by ear as she could sight reading. It took me along time to figure out why grandmother had so many Rudolph Valentino records ... not her choice as they were given her. The only fun part I had when she played his records was winding the Victrola.
     
  10. kehaulani

    kehaulani Fortissimo User

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    So you were steeped in recordings of music that might have been recorded on high or low pitch instruments and when you played some of those old songs recently there was a disconnect between how you were hearing the music from your past and currently? That's what I was looking for. Thanks.
     

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