Trick for freeing up sticking second valve due to impact of the 2nd tuneing slide

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by lovevixen555, Jan 19, 2009.

  1. lovevixen555

    lovevixen555 Banned

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    ok this might be old news to some of you but it might be useful to others. Well I was flipping through an old brass repair manual and when I say old I mean old. To give you idea of how old they still were useing terms like "German Silver" which has not been used in a long time. So Oldlou and I thought that the valve was sticking due tot he sendond valve slide being struck or compressed. It makes sense since this trumpet is second hand and was in a marching band accident hence the reason I got it almost free! So I had tried some other techniques that required one to work from inside the valve engine with a delicate touch not for the ham fisted amoung us. I had some improvment but I just could not get the leverage I needed. I was reading my old repair manual when what jump's out and smacks me in the face???? A tip for fixing exactly what I thought was wrong with this Getzen!!!! You take the third slide out and stickit in the place of the second slide. You then use it like you would use a sheater pipe with a ratchet or breaker bar to increase your leverage. So A few secsesively firmer push's and the valve is now fixed and nothing cracked or broke etc.... Notice I started off soft while also pushing the valve. Once I got tothe point that the valve felt like it was moveing free I pushed just a little harder and held it for about a minute.

    Now do be careful and if you are the ham fisted type or have a super expensive trumpet do yourself a favor and let a pro do it. If on the other hand you are handy and the trumpet is not too priceing in my case with shipping it was $30 have a go at yourself!!! Brass is a soft alloy that bends and tears rather easy so always start off gentle and slowly build up pressure.

    I wish photo's would do this trumpet justice the lead pipe is twisted 90° inward and the braces and their solder held!!! The bell is crumpled and at least 30% of the finish is missing but itis spread out all over it looks like it has freckles! Up to now the second valve was flacky. I only want the valve engine that is why I bought it. The valves still mic out close to new inspite of it being from 1965.
     
  2. Pedal C

    Pedal C Mezzo Forte User

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    The techs at the shop I used to work in would do this occasionally. Use with caution, but it can be a fix for the right situation.

    A tip...as you apply pressure to the second slide, don't push back against the first slide with your thumb or other hand. You might knock that one out of whack as you fix the other.
     
  3. oldlou

    oldlou Forte User

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    I still contend that the use of a padded thin flat machinists file or other flat lever used to gently pry the entire second valve slide away from the valve body is a safer and equally as effective method. My problem with using the third valve slide as a lever is the very real probability that that third valve slide will be bent or kinked by the lateral pressure used to realign the damaged second valve slide. I have preached for years against laying any brass instrument down on the protruding valve slide side, or putting anything in the instrument case that touches the horn. I see many experienced musicians putting books and music folders into their instrument cases and then forcing the lid shut. This is a GUARANTEED method for bending that fragile second valve slide into close proximity with the valve casing. I have no idea how many second valve slides I have had to realign because of poor handling which has caused the second valve to become sticky. In more than a few cases the valve was scored so badly by the knuckle of the second valve slide having been pushed into solid contact with the valve piston that the valve had to be replated and lapped back to a proper fit.


    OLDLOU>>
     
  4. lovevixen555

    lovevixen555 Banned

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    Oh I got results useing your method OldLou I just could not get the needed levarge in a manner that I felt safe. This other method I tried does have more pottential to tear the tubeing at the point it is brazed or silver soldered tot he valve engine. It does though also give you insane levels of leverage acting on the spot in the same put opposite manner that the damage was inflicted. Nothing wrong with either method both work. When trying to work from the inside I always felt like I was putting too much presure on the 1st and 3rd valve cylinderds because that is where my popeye forarms had to grip to counter the tension I was putting on the wooden spoon in my case padded at the top of the valve cylinder.

    So OldLou please do not feel like I did not like your method on the contrary I thought it was Genius I just did not feel safe useing as much force as I needed to to and I still got results with your method's I just was not able to push it back all the way. The method I propose is like I said far more easy to damage your trumpet then you method especialy if someone is ham fisted but it did allow me to get it the rest of the way out. The third slide basicly operateing like a crow bar or pry bar gives insane leverage so caution is needed.

    So now Oldlou thanks to you and my old shop repair manual we now have not 1 but 2 excellent methods of fixing a sticking No2 valve due to impact of 2nd slide. I call that a win-win situation!
     
    nordlandstrompet likes this.
  5. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    LV,
    your method worked and might be of great help to somebody not near a technician 10 min. before a gig. Thanks for the tip.

    I think Lou's point is, if you have a choice, do not risk mucking a second piece of the horn up. If not, anything that let's the show go on is good.
    :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
     
  6. lovevixen555

    lovevixen555 Banned

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    Not a problem I love to share as I learn and I love to learn. I am sorry if we got off on the wrong foot too. I do not know you personely and chances are good in real life I would get along with you fine especialy over a good German beer. I think we are both obviously very strong and opposite personalities but with some of the same stuborn quirks! So I would like it very much if we could get along even when we disagree. Their is no reason we can not disagree in a gentlemanly way! So what do you say we start fresh!

    Sincerly,


    John
     

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