Triple D

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by rowuk, Nov 27, 2009.

  1. Ric232

    Ric232 Pianissimo User

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    Not trying to be "thickheaded." Just want to understand.

    A on the staff is middle A
    A above the staff is treble A
    2nd A above the staff is high A
    and . . . A below the staff is low/bass A?

    Is this correct, Rowuk? If so, I wish someone had previously introduced the concept of "treble" in the hundreds of previous posts arguing this issue instead of the usual "low, middle, high" nomenclature. It makes reasonable sense to me now, if I can just get used to calling C below the staff "middle C" instead of "low C."
     
  2. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    Ric,
    read the links that I posted above:

    Helmholtz pitch notation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Octaves and the Major-Minor Tonal System
    Dolmetsch Online - Music Theory Online - Staffs, Clefs & Pitch Notation
    Scientific pitch notation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    They will give you the firsthand information that you need.

    I really don't understand the resistance from some. No decent music school reinvents the wheel and all of this stuff has been around for a long time.

    As I teach in Germany, we have the octaves named.
    The Double Octave is notated C4 - H4 (H is B natural, B is Bb in Germany).
    The "High Octave" is C3 to H3.
    C2 to H2 is third space C to B natural above the staff.
    C1 to H1 is middle C (called that because it is in the middle of the bass and treble clefs) to third line B natural.
    The octave from our pedal C to B natural below the staff is C0 to H0
     
  3. veery715

    veery715 Utimate User

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    I think some folks are confused by pedal C being the fundamental, because on many instruments the fundamental is a resonating pitch, whereas on the trumpet (and other brass), it does not resonate. Our horns resonate beginning on the first overtone - the written C one ledger line below the treble staff, and continue to resonate down to F# as we add in tubing to lower the non-resonating fundamental an octave below that.

    I know this has nothing to do with notation or names of notes, but feel it helps cloud the issue.

    v
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2009
  4. wiseone2

    wiseone2 Artitst in Residence Staff Member

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    The telling part of the video is that he found nothing to play in the triple register!
    He is a fine player.
    Wilmer
     
  5. gbdeamer

    gbdeamer Forte User

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    Great point!

    He was palying some GREAT stuff between C and C. Seemed like he was popping the Triple D just to see if the horn had it in there...
     
  6. Ric232

    Ric232 Pianissimo User

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    I already did. And I thought what I described above was consistent with that. So, I'll try again based on your last post. I'm assuming that every note has a verbal name and it is not necessary to say "A on the staff" or "2nd space A" or "A above the staff" other than when one is trying to be crystal clear to someone who may not understand the names.

    Fine, so the 3rd A above the staff is "double A" or "double high A". Correct?

    Ok, so the 2nd A above the staff is "high A." Correct?

    So what is A above the staff called . . . "middle A"? Please don't say "A above the staff."

    Fair enough, so what do we verbally call these notes? For example, what do we call A on the staff?

    So what do we call these notes verbally? I can understand C0 being called "pedal C" but it seems that F# to B below the staff would be called "low."

    I'm tired of saying this stuff wrong so hopefully this is what you're saying, Rowuk. If not, please correct.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2009
  7. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    Ric,
    this link has what I use:
    Dolmetsch Online - Music Theory Online - Staffs, Clefs & Pitch Notation

    That means the octave below middle C is called "the small octave", from middle C to B natural in the staff is called the one line octave, third space C to B natural above the staff is the 2 lined octave, high C to B natural below double c is the 3 lined octave and the 4 lined octave starts with double C, Triple C would start the 5 lined octave.

    When I have Americans here to visit we normally call the note by its position (which you didn't want to hear). That means a one line A is the A in the staff, 2 line A is A above the staff and small A is the one below the treble clef.

    In Germany it is easy to avoid all of this by saying A0, A1, A2 or A3. Everybody knows what is meant and there is absolute clarity. No bragging rights for BS.
     
  8. Ric232

    Ric232 Pianissimo User

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    Ok, so I falsely assumed that every note from F# below the staff to infinity can be called "low", "middle", "high", "double", or "triple", etc. I guess not.
     
  9. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    Ric,
    that is part of the problem when we use terminology from the street. It doesn't have to fit the whole picture - only the part that is needed for the moment.

    That is why I try to clean it up. Not to be the smart alec, rather to give us a better and accepted common base.
     
  10. nordlandstrompet

    nordlandstrompet Forte User

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    The possible Norwegian explanation:

    When teaching from scratch, the youngsters are often told
    "lies" so they have a starting point: "The famous Low C"

    The middle C of the octaves (C4) is called "The Low C" :shock:
    It is also called C1! The confusion has already started here.

    Common terms of speaking:

    High C = treble C (C5) also called C2

    C6 also called C3 or Double C

    and so on......

    [​IMG]
     

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