Triple tounging/ Carnival of Venice

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by maynardthe2nd, Apr 3, 2008.

  1. maynardthe2nd

    maynardthe2nd New Friend

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    Dec 3, 2007
    Meh... On earth i guess
    -let me start by saying sorry if this is in the wrong place :D-

    Hi, my county's solo and ensemble is coming up in about a month, and my private lessons teacher has assigned me on the triple tounging sections of carnival of vinice from the arban book. Before now, we've worked on triple tounging, and i know how to do it, and i know all of the "theory" behind it, but i'm having a big problem. When i go for the middle tongue stroke, the "k" tongue, as most call it, is getting very throaty. it gets a gagging noise to it, almost like a "gyeuh" sound before the note, which i realise is because my tongue is back much too far, which causes my tounge to move to much, and will overall restrict my speed. I know the correct syllable to use when I play, but for some reason, when i get a embechure set and my air moving, it either goes back to the same position as it was, or the syllable doesn't come out right. Is there any advice on keeping the stroke in the middle of my tongue anyone could give me? Any kind of secret, excersizes, website, etc that could help me with my problem? Thank you for your time
    -Mt2
     
  2. s.coomer

    s.coomer Forte User

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    A couple of things come to mind. First work on just "k" attacks even as quarter notes. Play them slowly and once you can play them with no problem at this slow speed gradually increase your speed. DO NOT GO ANY FASTER UNTIL YOU ARE COMFORTABLE AT ONE SPEED!! Then. and only then gradually increase your speed. Also it sounds according to your post that you are using "TKT" which is fine, but you might want to try "TTK". However, with whichever you are using use the same idea, do them slowly until you are comfortable at one speed and then move to a faster speed. Work with a metronome. I know this may sound like the long and hard way to get things correct, but it sounds as though you have developed a habit which needs to be broken. We can only break habits by slow and deliberate efforts. I know you want the quick fix, but there really is not one. The quick fix is doing it the way that I have outlined.
     
  3. maynardthe2nd

    maynardthe2nd New Friend

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    Meh... On earth i guess
    alright, this helps alot. And i am doing the "TTK" method, no worries over that. About how long do you think it will take to break this habit of mine?
     
  4. s.coomer

    s.coomer Forte User

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    That's an impossible question to answer here in this forum, as I have not heard you play and furthermore have no idea how ingrained the problem is. You have to be very self-disciplined with yourself and patient. I know you are worried about your contest, but what is more important one contest or fixing the problem and helping your overall playing for as long as you play? That question you must answer for yourself.
     
  5. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    mt2,
    triple tonguing is a skill learned over time. The ONLY way to develop a skill is methodically. There is no downloadable "cheat".

    Depending if you are trying to break an old BAD habit first or are in the middle of correct development is impossible for us to judge.

    The gagging noise you mention is common EARLY in development of multiple tonguing as well as improperly learned technique. We have not learned to relax and replace forceful, slow, clumsy motion of the tongue with a light, quick and precise one.

    Practicing the Ku Ku alone is good for this IF it is monitored by the teacher. The goal is to get the motion reduced as much as possible, which is dependent on breathing, air flow, relaxed upper body and many hours of practice. I assign my students exercizes out of the the Clarke Technical Studies or Arban book for multiple tonguing. They are more than good enough!

    Your teacher has assigned this and obviously has reason to. I would not risk screwing up her/his work with free internet advice from people that do not know you
     
  6. maynardthe2nd

    maynardthe2nd New Friend

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    Dec 3, 2007
    Meh... On earth i guess
    @ s. Commer:
    yeah, you're right, it is about my development as a player

    @rowuk:
    yeah, i'm trying to break a bad habit, and get better at triple tonguing by doing so. And i know your right about the internet advice thing, but i only see him once a week, so i thought some of my questions could be answered here.
     

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