trouble between 4th and 5th parital

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by frankmike, Jan 14, 2010.

  1. frankmike

    frankmike Piano User

    440
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    Dec 5, 2008
    atrouble between 4th and 5th parital

    ok I will talk in concert pitch to avoid any confusion, and I will reffer to fingering like this

    T T T all valves open,

    _ _ _ all valves closed

    T _ T second valve closed

    etc... etc...


    So the question is; how to overcome the problems between 4th and 5th parital. Main problem is that those two paritals are overlapping, and I do not know where 4th stops and 5th begins

    for example everything is fine untill bD on 4th parital and D on 4th parital, I can play better D when I apply this fingering _ _ T rather than T T T, but am I still on 4th parital if I play _ _ T, because that fingering on 4th parital gives B

    According to that we cannot really tell where 4th parital stops and 5th parital begins. And it is important for me to know because that are the most difficult tones for me to get right (bD, D), beleive it or not I can play G on 6th parital with more ease than D on 4th parital. So it is not the problem with range at all but with understanding.
     
  2. Bixel

    Bixel Pianissimo User

    142
    1
    Jan 1, 2010
    Germany
    For each partial ( T T T ) there are six half tone steps downwards in reach by using valves.
    Since the partials ( T T T ) get closer the higher register you reach there is that overlapping thing which allows alternate fingering.
    In the low register where there is no overlapping there is no alternate fingering neither.

    If you play concert D'' ( T T T ) you are on 4th partial.
    If you play concert D'' ( _ _ T ) you are on 5th partial.

    ...if my English serves me right.

    Concert D'' on some Bb trumpets is an issue intonation-wise.
    So is G'' (on many Bb trumpets).
    Do you have that issue (G'' easier to hit than D'') on serveral trumpets or on just one?
     
  3. frankmike

    frankmike Piano User

    440
    16
    Dec 5, 2008
    I have only one trumpet, it is junk trumpet but plays well, but I have more trouble with bD than D, both are difficult to get right but bD is worse
     
  4. Bixel

    Bixel Pianissimo User

    142
    1
    Jan 1, 2010
    Germany
    Perhaps you should give a non-junk trumpet a try.
    Then you will know if your junk trumpet plays well or "junky".

    :dontknow:
    .
     
  5. frankmike

    frankmike Piano User

    440
    16
    Dec 5, 2008
    I tried a lot of non-junk trumpets yamaha-xeno and stuff like that in the shop

    but the problem is; I cannot really tell because they arent oiled properly, and they do not want to oil the, and they do not really when I try it, they let me but I can tell they do not like

    In that circumstances I cannot really test the trumpet properly
     
  6. frankmike

    frankmike Piano User

    440
    16
    Dec 5, 2008
    and that is not really my problem

    my problem is overlapping, I do not know where 4th parital stops and 5th parital begins
     
  7. Bixel

    Bixel Pianissimo User

    142
    1
    Jan 1, 2010
    Germany
    May well be.

    5th overtone goes from concert F'' ( T T T ) chromatically down to concert B' ( _ _ _ ).
    4th overtone goes from concert D'' ( T T T ) chromatically down to concert Ab' ( _ _ _ ).
    But there is quite a bit of overlapping, which normally is not really needed.

    You normally would use 5th overtone from F'' ( T T T ) down to Eb'' ( _ T T ), then use 4th overtone from D'' ( T T T ) down to B' ( _ _ T ), and then would let 3rd overtone overtake - Bb' ( T T T ).

    All different fingering is alternate and may help when there are intonation issues.
     
  8. frankmike

    frankmike Piano User

    440
    16
    Dec 5, 2008
    ok thanks
     
  9. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

    Age:
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    Germany
    I have often found that a leaking water key will make the "E" played open REALLY squirrely.

    Lip slurs are the best medicine that I know for getting the partials under control. Play them softly and try and keep the air moving "big". When lipslurs are under control, they almost sound like a xylophone.
     

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