Trumpet Cornet - the Difference

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by trumpetsplus, Jan 31, 2015.

  1. Ed Lee

    Ed Lee Utimate User

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    Having personally listened to many of his songs that were directed by Herbert Clarke and made available on recordings of the era for wind-up Victrolas with steel needles, IMO "unfaithful" is an understatement. Still, today a live presentation with overuse of audio amplification seemingly approaches the same level of aural discomfort for listening, at least for my old ears.
     
  2. Cornyandy

    Cornyandy Fortissimo User

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    But the then where does the flugel fit in?
     
  3. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    Actually, you may be surprised when looking at a french horn spectral analysis. I think that the quantity of overtones would be in favor of the french horn, albeit less odd harmonics and more even ones......
     
  4. Sethoflagos

    Sethoflagos Utimate User

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    Maybe a bad example. I've only really thought about this (and then not much!) when comparing the colour of open notes vs 1-2-3 combination in particular. They seem to match pretty well below mid-stave (at least on the instruments I'm familiar with), but the 1-2-3 becomes increasingly an ugly duckling going higher. Not that many people would want to play high Ab and Bb 1-2-3 I suppose.
     
  5. trumpetsplus

    trumpetsplus Fortissimo User

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    What I understand from the trumpet history books is that the 19th century trumpet players would not embrace the new technology of valves. Hmm, fancy that, trumpet players set in their ways even back then! ROFLROFL

    However composers wanted chromatic parts so they gave them to the cornet. It was then a case of catch up for trumpet players.

    Over the years this conservatism has killed several improvements in design; for instance Merri Franquin's 4 and 5 valve instruments.
     
  6. trumpetsplus

    trumpetsplus Fortissimo User

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    1-2-3 for Bb after the Ab just before the descending triad in Db in the Hindemith first movement works great.
     
  7. TrumpetMD

    TrumpetMD Fortissimo User

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    That is what I've read, too.

    Mike
     
  8. gordonfurr1

    gordonfurr1 Forte User

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    Conservatism is still a pretty strong vein in the acoustic guitar world. There have been some significant breakthroughs...resonator to increase sound volume, electrification for same reason, then effects. The revised versions then became their own thing...but the mid-1800's design remained in place worshiped and essentially unchanged (Martin x-bracing) to this day.
    I am hoping to make another revision to the guitar world soon...maybe a few will not recoil in horror at the sacrilege of doing things "differently"...though many will.
    In the auto industry it was called "NIH" (not invented here) syndrome. Reluctance to embrace change from others...but the paradigms in any realm are always broken by outsiders coming into an organization...never the established protagonists.
    The established protagonists have a dog in the hunt already. The status quo is their protection. Outsiders do not have a dog in the hunt, and do not know to NOT try some new angle..
    VALVES IN A TRUMPET, EH?
    That is a change. The next generation past the established natural trumpet players had to take up the new paradigm.
    Horn players (the big round French variety) faced the same paradigm shift in the middle 1800's with the advent of the German invention of rotary valves placed in the center of the lovely formally natural horns. Yes, the French horn of today is really a German innovation! And, Ivan is right...the composer's embraced the new technology changing the horn player's paradigm from a bag full of clanging crooks to a responsive and complex instrument capable of a greater articulation and symmetry of sound (hand stopping the horn go achieve intermediate tones dampened the sound of those notes).
    Thank you Ivan. I had not considered the cadre of established natural trumpet players that resisted the new valve paradigm. I suspect most of them resisted the innovation and it took a new generation and a new culture and a new society to embrace the new instrument...and by that time we were nearing the early 1900's and 1920's. Things were very different from the time of natural trumpets' heyday.

    Again, thank you for your knowledge, Ivan. I sort of viewed the era of natural trumpets as dissociated and separated by a period of time from the advent of the modern trumpet.
     
  9. Dale Proctor

    Dale Proctor Utimate User

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    Yep, if you can't beat 'em, join 'em. The modern trumpet is descended from the cornet, whether people want to admit it or not. The first 3-valve "trumpets" (at least in the U.S.) were called orchestral cornets or trumpet cornets.

    Here's a pic of one our band owns, and an old J.W. Pepper ad from a few years later...

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  10. gordonfurr1

    gordonfurr1 Forte User

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    I didn't know that!!! Thanks for sharing!
     

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